Board index PBase Feature Requests Please remove nudes in Popular Gallaries Thumbnails

Feature Requests

Please remove nudes in Popular Gallaries Thumbnails

Request changes or modifications.
hmetal
 
Posts: 246


Post Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:18 am


bobfloyd wrote:I am not suggesting any such thing. In fact, I favor a way for photographers to mark their work in some fashion so that others may censor it out if that is their desire. However, I only favor it if it is voluntary. I would follow it, not that I have anything in my gallery to mark as there are no nudes in it. I do not want anyone looking at my work who cannot or will not respect it for the work it is and I think most photographers are the same.


Spot on. However, while I agree about the "optional" sentiment, it should also be noted that those who choose to "opt out" from rating their adult content as such will face the consequence of being filtered/banned from popular galleries/images (as is done now).

I have only asked why it is that only Americans seem concerned about their kids seeing nudes. A point you have not so much as touched on once, I might add. Why is it that Americans are the only ones in these forums calling for a rating system so they can filter the nudes out?


Actually, mostly it is legitimate nude/glamour photographers that are pushing for the content rating system, we that want our images seen.

The puritans would be happy if we nude/glamour shooters/uploaders were just repressed into our little "gallery holes" instead of appearing in meta galleries (popular galleries/photos, PAD, PBAse main page samples) at all.

I push for the rating system so that those puritans can't force us into little boxes, so that we can have our nudes alongside their squirrels, kids' soccer games, Buffy the Poodle, etc. in the general meta galleries but tagged so that the puritans don't have to see them. And when someone DOES come in here complaining that "there's nudes in popular galleries," someone can just tell them, "use the filters Luke!"

As for the "children seeing your nudes" issue, I have no problem with my kids seeing ANY of PBase's current content, site-wide. Most children are oblivious to nudity until or unless an adult makes or has made an obvious issue of it. If you raise your kids to RESPECT nudity rather than SHUN it, but also make them aware of the bad elements, dangers and perverts in our societies, they will grow up not needing shrinks to sort out their sexual perversions, fears and relationship issues.

I just wish PBase would get this rating system done so that we can stop talking about it and start USING it. :)
Ray A. Akey
http://luminescentmemories.com - Luminescent Memories Photography
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hmetal - My Flickr
http://www.pbase.com/hmetal/pad - My PAD
http://codemain.com - A small portfolio

trinko
 
Posts: 816

Absolutism

Post Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:19 am


First the good news. It seems that pretty much everyone agrees that it would be a good idea to let folks set flags so that they don't get surprised by nude photos. Consensus across such a wide range of views is nice.

Second answering a questions:
The fact that i know that the PBase most popular gallery list can contain nudity doesn't mean i can't be surprised by it. Think about it. If i want to ensure the kids looking over my shoulder don't see two lesbians kissing or a naked man and women in an embrace the only solution is to never look at the popular galleries list since i can never know when a nude gallery might pop up. My lack of knowledge of when the clothes will drop means i can be surprised and i can't protect my kids.

Third a comment: If anyone in this list thinks that pictures of naked women get high hit counts because people are experiencing joy at the abstract beauty of the human form I suggest they might wish to ponder the question of why porn sells so well. Or perhaps you really believe that people buy Playboy and Hustler for the articles.

Fourth an editorial:
I've always found it interesting that the "sexually liberated" refer to those who adhere to the moral principles of western civilization, at least the last 1800 years or so, by pejorative terms such a puritans. One would think that those who propose the dismantling of the bans on public nudity would produce more cogent arguments than, well i'd let my kids see nudes! Why is your belief that children seeing nudes is fine any better than my belief that it is not? Are you a higher form of life? Do you bleed more intensely when cut? Do you feel more than I? Do you think in ways beyond my ken? But if you and i are just expressing our opinions how is the one that says nudity is fine, even though it's banned in all societies--remember no nudes wandering through supermarkets in most of even the highly refined continent of Europe-- is superior?
In many posts i see a great deal of Absolutism. We must allow nudes, those who oppose nudes are immature, backwards, lacking in true artistic appreciation. The position of no constraints is espoused, often without a true realization of what is being said, as an absolute good. Yet those same people would be shocked if for example someone posted a snuff shoot or say the public humiliation of a homosexual. While I agree that those sort of shots should be banned and the fact that those people would be offended is good I have to wonder why my, and others, desire to not have to see nudes is somehow inferior to those peoples objections to other types of images.
But this sort of absolutism is common for the left and for "intellectuals". What they feel is right is right while no matter what cogent arguments can be raised against their position. Studies linking pornography to sexual crimes or the degradation of women mean nothing. Studies showing that starting out cruising through nude shots leads some small, but still significant, fraction of individuals to harder and harder porn culminating with the generation of a non-trivial group of sexual predators are irrelevant .

Bottom line: Your belief that nudity is no big deal has at best no more basis than my belief that it should be controlled. Since there is no absolute way to prove your position that nudity is no big deal is right we should attempt some consensus that we can all be happy with.

P.S. Someone said that they didn't think people would leave PBase if this problem isn't solved. that may be true but i will be gone, probably much to the relief of many people in this thread! :)

Ah this drags on, i apologize but one last thing, truly final i promise. Photos of nudes are not like the great masters. Drawing a nude, taking a tabula rasa and creating on it an image is a far cry from taking a photo. Now taking a good photo is a challenge, one that i certainly haven't mastered. But a photographer captures things, it may be beauty it may be truth, it may be his lens cap and through that capture she can produce art. But it is an art that shows the beauty of some one elses creation not the photographers. A supreme court justice once said that he didn't know how to define pornography but he knew it when he saw it. It's also true i think that we all know there is a great difference between the nudes on the Sistine chapel ceiling and a photograph of a naked person. We just have difficulty articulating it. I'm sure my attempt above will be taken by many as an assault on photography as an art. That's not my intent. A beautiful photo is just that beautiful. But it is something captured not something created. That's why it's so hard to produce truly artistic nudes with photography. A drawing of a nude can contain the soul of the painter but a photograph can only show what is there. At least that's all i've seen in the thumbnails in the popular galleries.

lankyviktor
 
Posts: 56

Re: Absolutism

Post Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:55 am


trinko wrote:I've always found it interesting that the "sexually liberated" refer to those who adhere to the moral principles of western civilization, at least the last 1800 years or so, by pejorative terms such a puritans.


By "sexually liberated" do you mean that those with an appreciation for nude photography, or only those who do not share your point of view? Or perhaps just those that use the word puritan? I agree its use has had a mud slinging feel to it in this thread, but I also don't believe that nude photography = sexual liberation.

perhaps you could clarify?

davidhibberd
 
Posts: 9

Re: Absolutism

Post Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:33 pm


trinko wrote: But it is something captured not something created. ........ A drawing of a nude can contain the soul of the painter but a photograph can only show what is there.


Arrant nonsense!

matiasasun
 
Posts: 1493

Re: Absolutism

Post Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:58 pm


For those lazy enough here is the last quote in context:
trinko wrote:...A beautiful photo is just that beautiful. But it is something captured not something created. That's why it's so hard to produce truly artistic nudes with photography. A drawing of a nude can contain the soul of the painter but a photograph can only show what is there. At least that's all i've seen in the thumbnails in the popular galleries.


And this a previous warning:
trinko wrote:I'm sure my attempt above will be taken by many as an assault on photography as an art.


... Even in that context, I´m sure many of us will agree that a photo is art & creation no matter what. It might not be that formal (boooring) "academic" art... but it is art. We might not like it, but that does not make it more or less art. As a matter of fact, that´s why it is art.

Thing is, it`s never "only" art; it´s much more than what is "shown there". It´s mainly what you see and enjoy (or not) in the picture. That´s what we should be discussing here if you ask me.

Matias
8)
Matias, Chile - http://www.pbase.com/matiasasun
Resources, HOWTOs, Samples and more! - http://pbasewiki.srijith.net/

davidhibberd
 
Posts: 9

Re: Absolutism

Post Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:59 am


[quote="matiasasunThing is, it`s never "only" art; it´s much more than what is "shown there". It´s mainly what you see and enjoy (or not) in the picture. That´s what we should be discussing here if you ask me.

Matias
8)[/quote]

Well said.

455rocket
 
Posts: 732

Re: Absolutism

Post Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:22 pm


trinko wrote: A beautiful photo is just that beautiful. But it is something captured not something created. That's why it's so hard to produce truly artistic nudes with photography. A drawing of a nude can contain the soul of the painter but a photograph can only show what is there. At least that's all i've seen in the thumbnails in the popular galleries.


Here's a snap of a devil on break from my last, and most enjoyable, vacation in Hell. I highly recommend the place.
I think it's art but some may say I've only shown what's there... and they may not want to click this link.

http://www.pbase.com/455rocket/image/58182888/original

solizphotography
 
Posts: 32


Post Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:37 pm


The first thing I did once I uploaded one of my artistic nude shots was to looking for a [box] to check off for viewers who are over the age of 18+ to view. That and once I signed up for Pbase I looked for a Option to turn off those 18+ photos when I'm at work.

Like what my forum does on Tribalwar.com: We have an Option called "NWS (Not work Safe)" and once that option is on, all content which is marked NWS will not be shown.

Though this is a much larger scale than our forum on Tribalwar.com - it could apply to here.
It is the same thing that Deviantart.com does for their adult content photos.

Also it is a good practice to watch your children so they're no subjected to these photos to being with. Common sense people.

ksgant
 
Posts: 6


Post Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:44 pm


trinko

So, let me get this straight...as I didn't read everything you wrote on why you don't want nudes here. There have never been any nude photographs that could be considered "art"? Only the drawings and paintings by the masters of nudes were art? Just trying to clarify your position

You say that photographing nude women is degrading and exploiting them. What about nude men? Why is it degrading to show something that EVERYONE has? If your 12 year old actually saw a naked human being, would their heads explode? Would fire shoot out of their eyes? Just wondering. Everyone seems to pull the "protect the children" line every time something like this comes up, yet they never think it through to it's logical conclusion and ask themselves: what exactly would happen to a 12 year old if they saw a picture of a naked breast or buttocks? I happen to have a 12 year old, he's almost 13 and trust me, there are bigger things to worry about than if he sees a boob or not.

Also, when children are 17, they don't have enough wisdom to view such images...but at midnight of their birthday when they turn 18, they suddenly have the insight and wisdom to view pictures of nudes?

And when I'm talking about all this, I'm talking about nudes as in an art form. The artistic nude. Something from Robert Faber or Herb Ritts. Or do you just want to through out the baby with the bathwater? Ban or mark all nudes no matter what, make a clean sweep of the whole thing and label it all as "pornography". Why stop there? How about women in lingerie or swim-suits? They're HIGHLY suggestive. Even fully clothed women can be looked at as "sex objects"...so perhaps marking as adult all images of women totally, we don't want little 12 year olds getting any ideas that they can objectify and exploit (whatever that means....it's been said so many times, people don't even know what they're parroting out anymore) women! So perhaps someone here like Mary Duprie should be marked as "pornography" because little Jimmy or Sally will have their heads explode!

You say you were looking through the galleries and you came across a picture of two naked women kissing. Would you also have objected if they were fully clothed and still kissing? Would that be ok to show? Two fully clothed men kissing? Should Pbase hire you as their morality police? I'm just wondering. Or perhaps you should just lighten up a tad and realize that the human body is beautiful....intolerance, ignorance and bigotry are not.

trinko
 
Posts: 816

Re: Absolutism

Post Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:52 am


I concur that not all people who approve of nude photography are "sexually liberated". i used that term because i thought it described those who use puritan in a pergorative sense.

lankyviktor wrote:
trinko wrote:I've always found it interesting that the "sexually liberated" refer to those who adhere to the moral principles of western civilization, at least the last 1800 years or so, by pejorative terms such a puritans.


By "sexually liberated" do you mean that those with an appreciation for nude photography, or only those who do not share your point of view? Or perhaps just those that use the word puritan? I agree its use has had a mud slinging feel to it in this thread, but I also don't believe that nude photography = sexual liberation.

perhaps you could clarify?

trinko
 
Posts: 816

i agree

Post Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:55 am


i do watch what my kids view. however i shouldn't have to have the full burden. i mean when we go shopping or drop in to a Camera store i don't have to be constantly on the look out for nude people wandering around.

anyway i agree that a simple labeling self thresholding approach would be a perfect solution.
solizphotography wrote:The first thing I did once I uploaded one of my artistic nude shots was to looking for a [box] to check off for viewers who are over the age of 18+ to view. That and once I signed up for Pbase I looked for a Option to turn off those 18+ photos when I'm at work.

Like what my forum does on Tribalwar.com: We have an Option called "NWS (Not work Safe)" and once that option is on, all content which is marked NWS will not be shown.

Though this is a much larger scale than our forum on Tribalwar.com - it could apply to here.
It is the same thing that Deviantart.com does for their adult content photos.

Also it is a good practice to watch your children so they're no subjected to these photos to being with. Common sense people.

trinko
 
Posts: 816

bigotry at it's best

Post Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:01 am


ok let's see what you're saying. i'm bigoted because i don't think children should be exposed to nude photos. you're not bigoted when you condemn my position. right.

out of curiosity what makes you PBase's morality police? Why should your disagreement with thousands of years of western moral tradition be assumed to be "right" while my position is wrong?

Get a grip man. Realize that your position and my position are both moral ones. We both believe we are right and we should both respect the others opinion. But for some reason you feel quite comfortable calling me a bigot. Why is your condemnation of my moral belief tolerant but my disagreement with your moral position intolerant?

I know, or at least hope, you're a very intolerant person. I doubt you tolerat Nazis, people who beat up homosexuals, child molesters, terrorists, mass murderers, rapists, racists, and i bet the list could go on for quite a long time.

ksgant wrote:trinko

So, let me get this straight...as I didn't read everything you wrote on why you don't want nudes here. There have never been any nude photographs that could be considered "art"? Only the drawings and paintings by the masters of nudes were art? Just trying to clarify your position

You say that photographing nude women is degrading and exploiting them. What about nude men? Why is it degrading to show something that EVERYONE has? If your 12 year old actually saw a naked human being, would their heads explode? Would fire shoot out of their eyes? Just wondering. Everyone seems to pull the "protect the children" line every time something like this comes up, yet they never think it through to it's logical conclusion and ask themselves: what exactly would happen to a 12 year old if they saw a picture of a naked breast or buttocks? I happen to have a 12 year old, he's almost 13 and trust me, there are bigger things to worry about than if he sees a boob or not.

Also, when children are 17, they don't have enough wisdom to view such images...but at midnight of their birthday when they turn 18, they suddenly have the insight and wisdom to view pictures of nudes?

And when I'm talking about all this, I'm talking about nudes as in an art form. The artistic nude. Something from Robert Faber or Herb Ritts. Or do you just want to through out the baby with the bathwater? Ban or mark all nudes no matter what, make a clean sweep of the whole thing and label it all as "pornography". Why stop there? How about women in lingerie or swim-suits? They're HIGHLY suggestive. Even fully clothed women can be looked at as "sex objects"...so perhaps marking as adult all images of women totally, we don't want little 12 year olds getting any ideas that they can objectify and exploit (whatever that means....it's been said so many times, people don't even know what they're parroting out anymore) women! So perhaps someone here like Mary Duprie should be marked as "pornography" because little Jimmy or Sally will have their heads explode!

You say you were looking through the galleries and you came across a picture of two naked women kissing. Would you also have objected if they were fully clothed and still kissing? Would that be ok to show? Two fully clothed men kissing? Should Pbase hire you as their morality police? I'm just wondering. Or perhaps you should just lighten up a tad and realize that the human body is beautiful....intolerance, ignorance and bigotry are not.

trinko
 
Posts: 816

Even the French are doing it!

Post Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:04 am


France has banned toplessness--is that a word--and string bikini's on the beaches in Paris. See
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?from=rss_A%20Step%20Beyond&set_id=1&click_id=&art_id=iol1154336210588S513
So i guess it's not just us backward Americans. :)

And yes the article does point out that such attire, or the lack there of, is still fine at most French beaches. It does seem though that even the French, the worlds only truly civilized people believe there are reasons to limit nudity.

hmetal
 
Posts: 246

Re: Even the French are doing it!

Post Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:14 am


trinko wrote:France has banned toplessness--is that a word--and string bikini's on the beaches in Paris. See
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?from=rss_A%20Step%20Beyond&set_id=1&click_id=&art_id=iol1154336210588S513
So i guess it's not just us backward Americans. :)

And yes the article does point out that such attire, or the lack there of, is still fine at most French beaches. It does seem though that even the French, the worlds only truly civilized people believe there are reasons to limit nudity.


..and on the other side of the coin, it has been ruled by the Supreme court of appeals that it is legal for women in Ontario Canada to go topless.

Boy am I glad I live in Ontario, as is my wife. We are both budding nudists.
Ray A. Akey
http://luminescentmemories.com - Luminescent Memories Photography
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hmetal - My Flickr
http://www.pbase.com/hmetal/pad - My PAD
http://codemain.com - A small portfolio

ksgant
 
Posts: 6

Re: bigotry at it's best

Post Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:06 am


trinko wrote:ok let's see what you're saying. i'm bigoted because i don't think children should be exposed to nude photos. you're not bigoted when you condemn my position. right.

out of curiosity what makes you PBase's morality police? Why should your disagreement with thousands of years of western moral tradition be assumed to be "right" while my position is wrong?

Get a grip man. Realize that your position and my position are both moral ones. We both believe we are right and we should both respect the others opinion. But for some reason you feel quite comfortable calling me a bigot. Why is your condemnation of my moral belief tolerant but my disagreement with your moral position intolerant?

I know, or at least hope, you're a very intolerant person. I doubt you tolerat Nazis, people who beat up homosexuals, child molesters, terrorists, mass murderers, rapists, racists, and i bet the list could go on for quite a long time.


I wasn't acting as any morality police, I was asking questions. I'm trying to find out what you're actually saying. Also, you didn't answer any of my questions, the main one being what would happen if your child were to actually see a naked human being? Are they scared for life or will they realize "hey, I'm the same way". Or should we teach them that nudity is dirty? Again, simple questions. Should we also limit even showing a picture of a woman who some may find "sexy", even though they're fulling clothed. Should we show t-shirts that have nipples poking through? Bikinis? Lingerie? Again, these are all just as suggestive as nudity. But how far should we go, if nudity is bad, is a bikini that technically hides the crotch, nipple and buttocks but yet shows the outline of all 3 be considered nudity? Where do we draw the line? Or are you talking only about pornography style (as in shots that usually only a OB/GYN would see)? Or are Herb Ritts and Robert Faber way over the line?

My question about art also. Do you consider works by Herb Ritts or Robert Faber art? Or is it just "soft porn"? What if a master painter were to create a blatantly sexual painting of two people having sex? That's a painting, it's well lit, it's "art"...would that be ok to see? Where is your line?

Are artists like Mary Duprie here at Pbase over the line? Also, the picture you said that you came across in the galleries of two naked women kissing is over your line, but what about two women kissing that are fully clothed? Two clothed men kissing? Would that be ok to show? Again, these are just questions.

My last line in my other post was "the human body is beautiful....intolerance, ignorance and bigotry are not". I didn't mean to imply that you held any of those, it's just a line I usually say to anyone talking about nudity and the pros and cons of it. I can understand that you may have construed that I was calling you those things, if so, I apologize. I truly only wanted to see where you stand. As you can see from my questions, it's not a simple matter of "nudes or no nudes" though it may seem like it is. The line is very very fine.

PreviousNext

Board index PBase Feature Requests Please remove nudes in Popular Gallaries Thumbnails

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests