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Technical Questions

Histograms

Discuss technical aspects of photography
jimcritchley
 
Posts: 324

Histograms

Post Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:34 pm


i have just read a thread where the histogram has been mentioned. While I have a fair idea of what the histogram is showing (lighter tones on one side :?: ) how do you use the histogram if at all when shooting. Do people have it on so when they shoot it automatically pops up and they can then readjust if neceassary. i do shoot in RAW, but I understand that a) you want to get the shot right first time and b) that too much post-processing increases noise at certain times. Any help on this would be gratefully received :)

dang
 
Posts: 3780


Post Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:49 pm


Depending on the model camera, it's usually showing dark toward the left, and light toward the right (check your manual). I'm not sure how others work, but Canon has an "info" button that allows you to set it so the histogram shows with the image when it's viewed after the shot. After you use it a while, it becomes second nature to check it, and make adjustments when needed. Some P&S models have a live histogram, which is even better. But they use an LCD viewfinder which makes it possible.

ivinghoe
 
Posts: 138


Post Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:26 pm


If you would like a lot more info on histograms as well as other common photoshop commands like curves ,sharpening, etc... take a look at Ron Bigelow`s site. Worth a read on a rainy day :) The histogram pages are here. The article is aimed at photoshop but the basics apply when looking at your camera histogram

sean_mcr
 
Posts: 493


Post Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:06 pm



jimcritchley
 
Posts: 324


Post Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:58 am


Thanks for the links, especially the luminous landscape. :D

andrys
 
Posts: 2701


Post Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:26 pm


sean_mcr wrote:http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/understanding-histograms.shtml


Thanks for this excellent link. Best piece I've ever seen on histograms.

I included it just now on a how-to I made for a friend yesterday
who joined pbase, and for some reason his photos lacked contrast.

It's some kind of monitor-setting or calibration prob I imagine. Looked
fine on his machine. But also that meant he hadn't checked his histogram
when editing.

So I made a non-public page at http://www.pbase.com/andrys/temprobin
to show what to look for when using Photoshop levels, with respect to the
histogram reading.

djwixx
 
Posts: 1360


Post Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:26 am


I pretty much just look at the histogram to determine if I have a good exposure. The left side of the histogram is shadow and the right is highlights. Basically you want to avoid the edges of the histogram, especially the right hand side. If you hit the right hand side you have over exposed areas which cannot be recovered. If you have anything hitting the right edge of the histogram you will see flashing black areas in highlights preview mode, which again shows over exposed areas. If you are over exposed adjust the exposure bias down to compensate, or if the histogram shows a lot of shadow you can adjust the exposure bias up to compensate.

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but that's my understanding.

ghsmith178613
 
Posts: 85


Post Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:23 am


i drove past this one earlier. hoping someone would come up with a real definintion - something like from a physicist, but in plain language. the best that i came up with was two associates with those very rare MFA Photographic Science. my 200+ hours doesn't even get close to these guys. :oops:

almost everybody now-days gets really close to it because of the photoshop crutch and the button on the back of the camera. but the nail is getting really messed up. really, until a little while ago, only a few film geeks actually ever saw a photographic histogram. even fewer actually knew the sceince of densitometry and sensitometry. so, there is a lot of mystery attached to this little graph.

folks, "In statistics, a histogram is a graphical display of tabulated frequencies." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histogram). it is nothing more, nothing less.

remember that - "matter can not be destroyed..."

a photographic histogram is a graphic illustration of the tonal values of a given scene. "A histogram is a standard statistical description of a distribution in terms of occurrence frequencies of different event classes; for color, the event classes are regions in color space." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_histogram) thats all. nothing more, nothing less.

remember that - "matter can not be created..."

1. if the scene being recorded is mostly dark, the histogram will "stack-up" to the left. yes, that is where the shadows record in the sceintific method.
2. if the scene being recorded is mostly light, the histogram will "stack-up" to the right. yes, that is where the highlights record in the sceintific method.
3. if the scene being recorded is an average of darks and lights, the histogram will distribute evenly across the graph. this is where an even distribution of highlights and shadows record in the sceintific method.
there are many test and demonstrations that can be done to demonstrate these phenomenon. remember to approach the proving as a photographic science experiment when you decide to really understand it.
4. remember that you are always trying to record highlights and shadows - both with details for as far as your intended output device will reproduce. remember shadow detail and highlight seperation?

as for using the histogram for the "new light meter," you are all correct as long as the histogram doesn't "stack-up" too far left or right. if you happen to not see that the histogram is just running off the edge, you will find your highlights or shadows have been blown out or blocked up. if you don't run it out far enough, the image will be too contrasty. What no one is talking about is the vertical axis. what if the vertical is pushed off the graph?

i don't know about you guys, but i can't see enough of that tiny little screen to bet my images on it. i shoot all my digital in RAW. i still carry my trusty minolta meters from the '90s. nice large digits, scene averaging, and memory.

class dismissed. have a good weekend

djwixx
 
Posts: 1360


Post Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:14 pm


Very interesting - Thank You.


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