Understand Grain v.s. Noise / PSed Blur v.s. Optical Blur

[sean_mcr]

Those books actually set you free from Upgraditis. Of all the things of a photographic nature that i own, they are the one thing that i know i'll always have with me, both physically and mentally. A true antidote to the following which is very funny but sadly all too true

Great Photographers on the Internet

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.c ... ernet.html

[madlights]

sean:

Great Photographers on the Internet

I haven't laughed that hard in quite a while.

[madlights]

tsienni said:

1) What would be those distinguishing visual features, if any, that separate film grains from digital noise, seen on the computer screen?

I've been trying to work at this some...I've always felt that DSLRs had a "cold" look or a too hard look in B&W (especially) if noiseless... not really plastic looking but not unifying exactly either...yet never liked the noise from them if introduced, in many cases. Guess I haven't really even attempted to come to terms with how I felt until you brought this up. Digital noise seems 'splotchey' to me...and sort of distracting (yet sometimes better than none and sometimes haven't removed it). Yet noiseless gives such a cold feel in B+W. Most of the tutorials I've been reading say that the silver particles in film sort of get clumped together as opposed to big splotches like digital...if that makes any sense at all? It does seem to me that film noise in general softens yet gives a more "edgy" look. and unifies. I've just started monkeying around with trying to add a simulation of... with some processes in Photo Shop...that attempt to add that unifying look but aren't obvious or detract from the "truth" of the shot. Don't know how well it's doing so far...but like the look on a few...and never am satisfied since things can always be better...It's very interesting and it has provoked me into thinking what I haven't liked sometimes and in some cases about digital...yet there is a great deal I do like. Here's a tutorial I've been working some with and seems interesting since one of the processes allows somewhat for the "clumping" of grain:
http://www.peachpit.com/articles/articl ... 30071&rl=1

[tsienni]

Do you know we have a wonderful camera database on Pbase? Because I'm pondering on my next gear I've been frequenting the search camera page these days. I stumbled over more often on those MF beasts that I won't even contemplating in buying, but I like checking others' photos taken by this and that camera. One thing that really caught my attention is how unspeakably good the grain looks like by Ilford film under the Hasselblad 501 C some Pbaser is using. There the grain doesn't make the subject look soft or smudged, but actually adds to the overall mood. This is very much a visual impression thing and very hard to describe in words, though.

On the other hand, in the same camera database I have also seen some great B&W works by a digital Canon(!), they came out with almost the same look I described earlier. Maybe it's the post processing that mades it so or not, I don't know.

Oj, I come to realise this question matters less to me now than before, but thanks for your thoughts, it's always exciting to try new things and compare what you see.

[sean_mcr]

I tell you what guys, this threads a three horse race

We should get a room

By the way tsienni,

I've been considering (only considering mind) this

http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/zeiss.htm