5D or 40D

[michaelachan]

Hi guys,

I am thinking of upgrading from the 350d to the 5d as a christmas treat to myself. I need advice on which camera to get, as both have advantages and disadvantages.

I am keen on the full frame capabilities of the 5d, but also keen on the Digic III processor on the 40D. The 40d also has a larger lcd screen and more custom functions.

my main question is: Which will have the better image quality.
maybe it's just me, but I feel that the image quality of the 350d isn't that great, im beginning to get very frustrated with the fact that my 50mm 1.4 decides when it wants to focus, and doesn't stick to the af points on auto and manual focus. (technical fault?)

[jdepould]

Image quality has more to do with the lens, though the 50 f/1.4 should be excellent. Maybe it's something with your copy?

If you don't do a lot of wide angle shooting, or you need the faster frame rate then the 40D would probably be the better choice. The bonus on the crop sensor is that it only uses the middle of the image projected by the lens, which is usually the sharpest part.

However, if you're going to be doing a lot of wide angle work, the 5D might be the way to go.

[marxz]

Rumours aside the 5D must be just about due (long over due) for a make over or upgrade/replacement.

the only model without sensor cleaning. The only model it shares the Digitec II engine with is the 400D=. the 40D has had a (minor) upgrade in weather sealing. It lacks USB storage or wireless communications options.


further more looking at the discounting I'm seeing at dealers and in papers it's either about to be replaced or permanently moved down the food chain to the level of the 40D (40d = general + sports prosumer wanabe 1d. 5D = portrait/landscape wanabe 1Ds)

[sean_mcr]

I think the 5D will be replaced early in the new year.

The only time to change a camera is when you can't achieve what you want with the one you have and you have to know why that is before you consider what the solution is


The 40D's image quality was likened to that of the 5D by
Michael Reichmann in the link below, which upset a lot of owners of the 5D

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/revie ... dson.shtml

Optics do of course have a huge impact on image quality (as long as you know how to use them) but so does the camera. Put a 50mm on 10D and on a 40D and the difference is startlingly obvious (if you shoot right)


I have little faith in LCD screens beyond what i can see in a histogram. 2 inch 3 inch, it's still tiny. I think we've all been shocked and disappointed at times by what looked great on the LCD looking the opposite once we get them on to our monitors. So that's never why i'd choose one camera over another.

By the looks of it Michaela, you're going to become a studio shooter. That's all about space so the FF of the 5D may well suite you. Portrait lenses like the 85 and 135 may be a little long in a small studio. Depends on what you have to work with space wise. If i shot in studios i would not be looking at the cameras LCD i'd be viewing the images on a monitor


Upgraditis is no laughing matter (well it is) and it's often not the solution to our woes. But if you're sure you want to change, take any advice i give you with a pinch of salt because we do not shoot in the same way. You must consider how you shoot and what's going to allow you to shoot in the way you want to

Jessops have a two weeks return policy. Try a 40D for two weeks solid then try a 5D for two weeks. It will give you a far better idea of what's right for you then i ever could

[offtheradar]

I've drooled over the thought of owning a 5d since they first came out. But that was what, two years ago? That's about the time a camera runs before Canon brings out a significant upgrade to the model isn't it? They've already dropped the price which indicates sales have slowed and it makes sense to leave the cheaper (but still awesome) 5d on the market to boost sales thru the holiday. Like others have said, I'm betting we see a new 5d hit the market early next year.

It's still a great camera, but I'd probably opt for the 40d if I couldn't wait for the upgraded 5d just because there's something about me which won't let me buy old technology lol.

[marxz]

In the ideal world I'd buy the 40D this year and the 5D's replacement some time later next year....

or be finances be damned and buy the 1D Mk III and put up with the 1.3 crop (and a much much lighter wallet)

[sean_mcr]

There's a book that's well worth reading

The Paradox of Choice: Why More Is Less

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006000 ... 55?ie=UTF8


There are said to be two kinds of consumers. Maximizers & Satisfiers.

Maxamizers are very rarely satisfied with the choices that they make and worry constantly about which way to go. Satisfiers tend to think that good enough is good enough and threat much less about such things


Canon & Nikon target Maxamizers agressivley

Come on now, in truth, how good does the 5D have to be before it's good enough? Where are the days where you'd shoot with a camera for 10, 15 20 years? What's the average amount of time somebody spends with a Dslr? will they be sat next to your old contax, Leica, olympus in 20 years time?. Who's going to jump from the 5D to the new improved 5D, who went from the 30D to the 40D. Who went from the 85mm 1.2L to the 85mm 1.2 L mk ll? The wheel keeps turning-that is as long as we run on it like consumer hamsters

I won't kid myself, i've got some hampster in me, i manage to run it off most of the time.


There's a washing up liquid in the UK called 'Fairy liquid' (you can laugh now) which been new and improved every year for the last 30 years. This year is apparently the "The best ever" I'm not too sure though, i think people should wait until Jan to see what happens

[marxz]

There's a book that's well worth reading

The Paradox of Choice: Why More Is Less

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006000 ... 55?ie=UTF8


There are said to be two kinds of consumers. Maximizers & Satisfiers.

Maxamizers are very rarely satisfied with the choices that they make and worry constantly about which way to go. Satisfiers tend to think that good enough is good enough and threat much less about such things


Canon & Nikon target Maxamizers agressivley

Come on now, in truth, how good does the 5D have to be before it's good enough? Where are the days where you'd shoot with a camera for 10, 15 20 years? What's the average amount of time somebody spends with a Dslr? will they be sat next to your old contax, Leica, olympus in 20 years time?. Who's going to jump from the 5D to the new improved 5D, who went from the 30D to the 40D. Who went from the 85mm 1.2L to the 85mm 1.2 L mk ll? The wheel keeps turning-that is as long as we run on it like consumer hamsters

I won't kid myself, i've got some hampster in me, i manage to run it off most of the time.


There's a washing up liquid in the UK called 'Fairy liquid' (you can laugh now) which been new and improved every year for the last 30 years. This year is apparently the "The best ever" I'm not too sure though, i think people should wait until Jan to see what happens

I can't agree more with the sentiment and the general idea... but... seriously while the purely mechanical cameras you could guaranty you'd be able to find some one who'd fix them for you, even if they had to machine up the parts, even if it cost more than a replacement camera.... who's going to tool up a new Digic II processor in 5 years time, who's going to be able to whip out a 8mp sensor off of their lathe in 7 years time? By the time my D60 packs it in I'd be surprised that Canon will even remember what it was let alone hold a new logic board for it or even a shutter.

Because as sure as God made little green apples Canon, Nikon, Fuji won't be supporting any of their 8, 9 or 10 year old camera's superseded 7 times over once their NoS parts supply dries up. I can't even rechip Sigma lenses that are "only" 6 years old so that they work on my 20D.

Before I bought my first DSLR a couple of years back I spent months poring over not just the latest but also the previous models and the models before them.... Instead of pumping for the then current 20D I got a 3 1/2 year old D60, twice superseded, "obsolete" "a boat anchor" "a clunker" as my co-workers called it.

Yet I used it I learnt how it differed from film SLRs. Relearnt (and still learning) everything I'd forgotten about composition, framing etc etc etc...

And I still use my D60 for about 1/3rd of my shots, I don't regard it as obsolete just as a good companion piece to my 20D (and the only reason I bought the 20D was because the D60 died in monsoon rain and I'd have had to waste almost a week of my holiday getting it serviced and the used 20d was 1/3 the price of a new 30D - I can thank Japan's "upgrade" and "throw way" consumerist society for that little bargain ).

I'm glad I did buy the 20D it's a big step up an allows me to explore options the D60 didn't open to me like low light photography, and a half decent fps for sports/action shooting.

Plus it gives me the flexibility of, when I want to, going out with one body with a standard lens and one with a wide or telephoto and not have to change lenses on the hop.

Will I upgrade? yeh sure, I know with my film camera's I slowly stepped up from a Practika to a Pentax MG to (some forgotten model) semi pro Pentax to a (loan) Nikon F3 and eventually a Nikon F4 over the course of the 80's and early 90's - I still have my Pentax MG sitting here (9/10ths dead, can't find the electronics to fix it so only works on it's single manual speed, can't focus properly as the focal screen's cracked, can't find a replacement without canibalising another non worker to make a single worker).

What the next camera will be and when it will be I don't know but the D60's had a tough life and it's starting to show the wear and tear of abuse (though mechanically still going, though theirs a weird clunk on the shutter/mirror return that wasn't there a few months back).

I'm in a fortunate position to be able to buy new camera's (particularly Canon) quite cheap but if a used 5D or 1D MkIIn comes available at the right price when the D60 finally shuffles off it's mortal coil then that will be it's replacement rather than a my current object of desire - the 1D Mk III or what ever replaces the 5D.

and after a suitable grieving period for the D60 my 20D will be then be "realigned" to augmenting what ever that camera joins the fold.

edit: oh yeh and my "latest" New" purchase - a 17-35mm 2.8 L, superseded late 2001 by the 16-35, and again ... buh some time after that by the 16-35 MkII...
cost? about 1/5 the lowest street cost for a new 16-35 MkII, soft corners at 2.8 between 17-24? well s'pose I'll just have to stop it down a few then?
vignette's a bit? on a 1.6 crop? no problem, if I go full frame... once again stop it down a few stops.

[sean_mcr]

Can't fault much of what you say pal, which is good as it saves me a lot of time

If forums are anything to go by, there's never been so many soft miss- focusing lenses in the history of photography . But i think it's more a case of that there's never been so many people that don't know how to use them as there are now. If somebody is taking bad images it's normally the tool that gets blamed, it's just not doing what's in the canon et al brochure.

In almost every aspect of our life today we are bombarded with images of what will make our life's better. 83 different brands of crackers in one supermarket, 250 different types of cereal. It's no different with photography, if you're shots or your life is not good enough shop your way out of it. Can't find the answer you need? we have it for you... "It's the new improved..."

I spent yesterday xmas shopping with my partner. Talk about the nightmare before christmas.

I wonder how many of us can see ourselves in this
http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bschwar1/Sci.Amer.pdf

[marxz]

Can't fault much of what you say pal, which is good as it saves me a lot of time

If forums are anything to go by, there's never been so many soft miss- focusing lenses in the history of photography .

excuse us as we meander away from the initial thread....
oh yeh reading the professional and user reviews of the 17-35mm 2.8 L as they went from 1990's through to the present day was like watching a Statler & Waldorf skit.. as the comments go from "Best ever" to "wonderful, except for....." sliding to "if it wasn't for...." and then down to "spoilt by....." never mind that for 10 years or so Professional and enthusiast photographers shot off hundredds of thousands of images using this lens, shots that appeared in everything from glossy fashion rags to weddings and graduation night portraits to that framed shot on the pianola of nana's favourite cat.

I spent yesterday xmas shopping with my partner. Talk about the nightmare before christmas.

I wonder how many of us can see ourselves in this
http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bschwar1/Sci.Amer.pdf

All I can say to that is that often the best art and greatest innovations are created from with in the severest of limitations.... oh yeh and amazing that they wrote a whole article on consumer cognitive dissonance with out ever once using the term "cognitive dissonance" ("cognitive dissonance" is, I must say, one of my favorite terms and we even have a research group here were I work that teaches firms how to minimize their clients (and potential clients) cognitive dissonance)

as for Xmas? BA HUMBUG! My sister got me a gift card where it says what a wonderful improvement her donation in my name will make for an orphanage in eastern Africa, I got her one saying that the money I donated in her name will pay a school teacher in Nepal for 6 months. - best christmas present. ever.
I'm no saint (far from it indeed) but these days I refuse to get drawn in to this whole sanitised and secularized Christmas spend-feast.

[offtheradar]

There are said to be two kinds of consumers. Maximizers & Satisfiers.

Maxamizers are very rarely satisfied with the choices that they make and worry constantly about which way to go. Satisfiers tend to think that good enough is good enough and threat much less about such things


Canon & Nikon target Maxamizers agressivley

Come on now, in truth, how good does the 5D have to be before it's good enough? Where are the days where you'd shoot with a camera for 10, 15 20 years?

I'm definitely a maximizer when it comes to the type of consumer (within the constraints of my budget). If I could amend the definition for a maximizer, saying I'm not satisfied with the choices I make isn't quite accurate. I'm satisfied with my choices until a significant improvement is made to the product we're talking about.

And usually, it's not just a matter of "wanting" the newest and greatest simply for bragging rights. Changes in cameras, improvements in lenses, new software, faster computers... it's a digital age and when something truly new comes out, it sparks a desire to explore the new technology from a creative perspective.

Unfortunately, my wants exceed my funds lol. I won't go into debt just because something new hits the market... maybe I'm a responsible maximizer if there is such a thing?

And you're right.. the 5d is an excellent camera just as it is (by comparison to what's available now lol). The choices photographers made in the past to keep a particular camera for 10-20 years isn't really an accurate comparison though. They did change film as film improved. With digital cameras, we can't simply update the chip and keep the body. When we see an opportunity get new features such as a huge reduction in noise at higher iso, greater iso options, spot metering, faster fps, better auto-focus or built in vibration reduction... these aren't simply cosmetic improvements. They're valid reasons in the mind of the photographer to constitute upgrading to keep up with their own creativity or photographic needs.

Quite a nice position for the camera manufacturers. I'm willing to bet the technology and advancements we will see in the next 5d was available long before the first 5d hit the market. It becomes a marketing tool... when sales slow down, drop the next improvement in an upgraded version and rake in the profits.

The old film cameras become a novelty. We've even seen digital versions of old models and software to simulate "old technology". It's funny, we can't wait for the upgrades, but the advances eventually produce a nostalgia for what we no longer have. Well, with the film cameras anyway. I haven't seen too much interest in reviving the old digitals with their high noise, low image quality, and inadequate features by todays standards. But give it time... maybe the maximizers 10 years from now will jump at the chance to buy cameras with settings that mimic the first digital cameras. But now? I'm eager to see what the next 5d brings.

[grabus]

Canon EOS 40D: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/
Canon EOS 5D: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos5d/

[michaelachan]

Thank you for the advice and the interesting debate, it sparked a discussion in my class yesterday I have decided to upgrade to the 5D since I think it will meet my damands more than the 40D, as I need full frame more than speed. I had a go on a 5D the other day and I just didn't want to put it down! I've definately made my decision! :]

[marxz]

Thank you for the advice and the interesting debate, it sparked a discussion in my class yesterday I have decided to upgrade to the 5D since I think it will meet my damands more than the 40D, as I need full frame more than speed. I had a go on a 5D the other day and I just didn't want to put it down! I've definately made my decision! :]

honestly you can't really go wrong with either unless your specifically after sports shooting (go 40D) or mostly using wide angle lenses (go the 5D)

I've pretty much decided on the 5D or it's replacement after trying one yesterday I have to hold off until the end of our FBT (Fringe Benefit Tax) year which is March as work will be buying it for me (well I'll be buying it but work will buy it at wholesale tax free price and I'll buy it off them at cost via deductions from my salary)

[sean_mcr]

There are said to be two kinds of consumers. Maximizers & Satisfiers.

Maxamizers are very rarely satisfied with the choices that they make and worry constantly about which way to go. Satisfiers tend to think that good enough is good enough and threat much less about such things


Canon & Nikon target Maxamizers agressivley

Come on now, in truth, how good does the 5D have to be before it's good enough? Where are the days where you'd shoot with a camera for 10, 15 20 years?

I'm definitely a maximizer when it comes to the type of consumer (within the constraints of my budget). If I could amend the definition for a maximizer, saying I'm not satisfied with the choices I make isn't quite accurate. I'm satisfied with my choices until a significant improvement is made to the product we're talking about.

And usually, it's not just a matter of "wanting" the newest and greatest simply for bragging rights. Changes in cameras, improvements in lenses, new software, faster computers... it's a digital age and when something truly new comes out, it sparks a desire to explore the new technology from a creative perspective.

Unfortunately, my wants exceed my funds lol. I won't go into debt just because something new hits the market... maybe I'm a responsible maximizer if there is such a thing?

And you're right.. the 5d is an excellent camera just as it is (by comparison to what's available now lol). The choices photographers made in the past to keep a particular camera for 10-20 years isn't really an accurate comparison though. They did change film as film improved. With digital cameras, we can't simply update the chip and keep the body. When we see an opportunity get new features such as a huge reduction in noise at higher iso, greater iso options, spot metering, faster fps, better auto-focus or built in vibration reduction... these aren't simply cosmetic improvements. They're valid reasons in the mind of the photographer to constitute upgrading to keep up with their own creativity or photographic needs.

Quite a nice position for the camera manufacturers. I'm willing to bet the technology and advancements we will see in the next 5d was available long before the first 5d hit the market. It becomes a marketing tool... when sales slow down, drop the next improvement in an upgraded version and rake in the profits.

The old film cameras become a novelty. We've even seen digital versions of old models and software to simulate "old technology". It's funny, we can't wait for the upgrades, but the advances eventually produce a nostalgia for what we no longer have. Well, with the film cameras anyway. I haven't seen too much interest in reviving the old digitals with their high noise, low image quality, and inadequate features by todays standards. But give it time... maybe the maximizers 10 years from now will jump at the chance to buy cameras with settings that mimic the first digital cameras. But now? I'm eager to see what the next 5d brings.

I hear you pal, i hear you

You just look at the work of people like Sally Mann, who's still shooting with wet plates a process that hasn't changed in over a hundred years. You just know her work when you see it; there's a continuity there in both quality and style, Mann has to be one of the worlds finest photographers, she's certainly held in that regard. Her equipment is ancient, but it's good enough; and matched with her amazing insight, you've got art and craft in perfect union.

You're right, it's a digital age

I've had my 20D now since it first came out, that's when i switched to digital. Sometimes i think about a new camera, sometime i think about going back to film. Ive been collecting photography books for years, and i'v yet to own a book by a photographer that shoots digital. I'm not sure the digital age has brought better photographs, just more photographs.


Biggest improvement i ever see in a photographer is when they begin to shoot with intent and not when they buy a new camera. I'd rather have more intent then less noise, but you cant buy that. That's what i come back to when i think about changing a camera

Good debate guys, and Michaela, im sure your new camera will serve you well