Board index Photography Artistic Questions Is black & white more expressive than color?

Artistic Questions

Is black & white more expressive than color?

Discuss style and artistic aspects of photography
genghis45
 
Posts: 5154


Post Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:44 pm


steveengland wrote:In my own mind this image would have only worked in B and W



As is true of this picture:

Image

compton_photographer
 
Posts: 69
Location: Ponca, Arkansas, Buffalo National River

It All Depends

Post Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:46 pm


I think of black and white as a tool and not necessarily a single way of expressing creativity. For me at least, it falls on the end of a continuum that would be described as extreme colorism to duo tones to black and white minimalism. Where I choose to go depends on the subject. I love the geometric expressions of black and white and how it shifts your attention to dynamic range. It is very cool when you have an image that can be interpreted in all places along that continuum and it still works.

This is one of my recent black and whites:

Image

Rock and old twisted wood. If there ever was a black and white cliche this is it, but I like it anyway.
Michael Dougherty
Compton, Arkansas
http://www.arkansasnaturephotography.com
NW Arkansas Nature Photography

madlights
 
Posts: 914


Post Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:18 pm


I think some of the reason color came more into favor in many people's heads was that the price of separating color (in a comparative sense) has come way down in published media from what it was in the 50's and 60's and even 70's.. even though color film was in wide use then. Think that many people jumped on the "color" bandwagon because of that change...and now a lot of people are realizing that black and white had it's own strengths, as well as weakness for a given use.

chrisphotos
 
Posts: 45


Post Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:13 am


Here is a B/W image that I convereted from an orginal digital color image using Photo Shop. (Taken in Flagstaff, AZ)
I darked the blue sky a little to bring out some of the clouds.
I also darked and added contrast to make the B/W image more dramatic.
I think for digital color images a strong object, such as this in the foreground, work very well to convert to black and white.

Image

On the other hand, here is an orginal digital color image I took in a Grants, NM park. This works because the object is seperated from the background by the dark color.

Image

And here is a Tri-tone, color added to the B/W conversion to create a Gold Tone like-print.

Image

All pictures taken last year on a trip to the South West and do not appear in my galleries yet.

madlights
 
Posts: 914


Post Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:21 pm


I've been doing some thinking on this since the thread started. Maybe in certain cases color can be very expressive...such as in things we associate with certain colors too: red=danger/boldness just as an example. Some colors are mysterious, some signify certain things...often purple has been associated with royalty as another example. I do think black and white is much more graphic in 'many' cases (but I've sure seen some people use color in a very graphic way)...since as has been said before, more of the extraneous has been eliminated...but as has also been stated so much depends on the intent...and maybe even on personal style or taste. This has been an interesting thread.

compton_photographer
 
Posts: 69
Location: Ponca, Arkansas, Buffalo National River

Yellow Flowers in BW

Post Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:35 am


Image

I think these yellow sunflowers look much better in black and white. Yellow is one of those colors that can grate on you, just kind of too energetic I guess. BW does these beauties justice.

MD
Michael Dougherty
Compton, Arkansas
http://www.arkansasnaturephotography.com
NW Arkansas Nature Photography

compton_photographer
 
Posts: 69
Location: Ponca, Arkansas, Buffalo National River

Orchids in BW

Post Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:51 pm


Image

This image was nearly monochrome with white orchids and subtle deep greens. I think it is better in black and white, but it is certainly just as pleasing in color.

I have decided to focus on black and white for a few months to stretch my work in another direction. As I am finding my voice, I am learning what I like and don't. In all photos, I like long tonal scales and strong lines and patterns. Seems pretty natural for black and white.

I guess my feeling is that my best color photos are all likely going to be very good black and white photos. This is because I go for the traditional compositional elements that BW photographers seek in all my photography.
Michael Dougherty
Compton, Arkansas
http://www.arkansasnaturephotography.com
NW Arkansas Nature Photography

photomary
 
Posts: 333


Post Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:40 am


Personally, I love the wide range of tones within certain stems, leaves and petals when rendered in b&w. Indian Paintbrush

Image

cokilan
 
Posts: 2

Re: Is black & white more expressive than color?

Post Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:27 am


genghis45 wrote:I love black and white. It has an old school soul that is difficult to replicate with color. It strips the photograph down to it's bare essence of line, form, shades and content.

Picture Title:

"LOOKING FOR JILL"

Image


is fine photo

____________________________
ilan sitesi

pstubley
 
Posts: 217


Post Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:49 am


Certainly get no argument from me about the expressiveness of black and white, and as with others, many of my own favorite images have been fairly limited in their colours (like flowers that are mostly one colour, with leaves that are mostly one colour, so really only red and green instead of even amounts of the full spectrum). I originally only used to do b&w, but since going digital, I have not been ecstatic about my results in converting the images to b&w. Recently, I have been concentrating on that, so the whole b&w vs colour thing is something I have been thinking about.

However, I also do a lot of underwater photography. In some cases, like shipwrecks, b&w can be really nice (although it is important sometimes to have a diver or fish in the photo -- otherwise b&w removes the sense of water and it just ends up looking like a pile of junk). For critters and reef scenes, though, I very much prefer the colour versions. I'm not sure why -- my only theory is that it is because things underwater are much less familiar, and the colours can be so different and spectacular, that the colour version wins.

There are lots of impressive underwater galleries at pbase, but let me give an example from my own, a lettuce sea slug. This one was unusually blue. First the b&w version (just made today -- conversion used a blue filter to make the critter stand out):
Image

And now the colour one:
Image

I like the b&w version, but it is the colour version that is on my wall. I just
love that blue, and then with the red background.... It does make a great case that a good colour image will make a good b&w version. My conclusion is that my original limitation to b&w only was just that: a limitation. And my (until recent) lack of skill at the conversion process from digital colour to b&w was an equal limitation. Use what the image really needs.

I still don't think I understand fully why b&w is still so popular and expressive -- it is just light, after all, with no distracting colour. Both for my own work and for looking at others, I am just happy that b&w is still a big part of photography.

Although maybe, now that I think about it, that is the answer: "no distracting colour." If there is too much information, then the information is just noise that distracts from the core essence of the image (whatever that means). Going to b&w (or duotone) can remove the excess information/noise, leaving just the core essence of the image (the mood, the story, ...).

If there is not too much information in the colour, then we get an expressive colour image. For my underwater examples above, because the underwater world is much less familiar to many of us, we need the colour more, and b&w tends to be less expressive.

Make sense to anyone but me? :)

cliffsmith
 
Posts: 5


Post Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:25 am


Code: Select all
Black and white is a tool, color is a tool, different length lenses are tools, shutter speeds, depth of field and exposure levels are tools, and tools are always selected based on the desired achievement and planned outcome. 

Black and white is not better than color.  Color is not better than black and white.  Black and white is the best tool for some outcomes.  Color is the best tool for some outcomes.  Some outcomes do not "demand" or "prefer" either.  If you want to know whether B&W or color should be chosen, ask yourself what you want to achieve.

If you try to insist that one particular tool is always best, or even appropriate, for any or every desired outcome, you will be setting yourself up for a fall.  If you choose to take this chance, you better be very, very good at using that one tool.  Some black-and-white-only photographers have been.  Some color-only photographers have been as well.  Most really good photographers will use both tools, for different outcomes.

pstubley
 
Posts: 217


Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:00 pm


Sorry, Cliff, I didn't mean to repeat your point -- I meant to be thinking out loud trying to puzzle out when b&w would be more appropriate than colour and vice versa.

My current thinking is that it is at least partly a question of the amount of information, where "information" is not the same as "knowledge." Underwater photographers spend a lot of time thinking about "negative space": I'm not sure how common a term that is elsewhere, but it basically means that you have to have a fairly quiet background around your subject to make it stand out. I have all too many examples of critter photos where you can't see the critter because there is too much clutter. Sometimes you can create the negative space with careful lighting. If there is too much information (too busy an image, for example), all that extra colour just obscures the key subject or idea or mood of the image.

But when you start taking pictures that use negative space well, you often end up with relatively few colours in the image, which is part of what can make them so striking. And the ultimate limit for "relatively few colours" is b&w.

For things that are less familiar to us, then colour is more likely to be more expressive because we need more information to understand the image (but too much colour or a too-busy-image still doesn't work). Like my b&w underwater photos without some other cue ending up looking like a boring pile of junk instead of a moody underwater wreck -- we need the colour to tell us it is underwater (unless there is a diver or a fish or something, in which case b&w is often very successful).

The ultimate answer, as you say, Cliff, is that colour/b&w are tools, and use whatever gets the best image. I'm just trying to learn more about what is most likely to get me the best image.

felicity6568
 
Posts: 5


Post Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:28 am


Good points from all of you!
I agree with gengish that this picture has much more expressiveness in black and white!

moffetb
 
Posts: 154

Re:

Post Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:25 pm


pstubley wrote: I'm just trying to learn more about what is most likely to get me the best image.


I love color. I think that color is very under-rated and black and white is very over-rated. I think this is because people see in color everyday, and B&W is "different".

Having said that, there is the minimalist idea. I believe in a recent (within the last 6 months) there was an article in Outdoor Photographer on Frans Lanting taking a photograph of a flower. He kept working with the flower image to find the minimal image that represented what he wanted. Taking out extraneous elements to tell the story.

If color is one of those extraneous elements, then by all means, remove it.

In the photo of the sea-slug (I think that's what it is) I think the color is an important element. The almost garish contrast of underwater animals is absolutely outstanding, and in direct contrast to what we normally see above water.

Brian

assodipix
 
Posts: 1

Re: Is black & white more expressive than color?

Post Tue May 20, 2008 2:21 pm


io non so se il bianco e nero sia migliore del colore, credo che non ci sia una risposta oggettiva, credo, però, che il b/n abbia in sé una dote magica che riesce a scindere la fotografia dalla pittura consacrandola come nuova Arte o come elevazione della pittura stessa. il bianco e nero è radicato nella fotografica come il colore nella pittura!

by assodipix

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