COMPETITION

[akjack]

John, Yes, I know in many ways school is not the answer in many ways. "The passionless pursuit of passionless intelligence" (Jack London)
About posting on the site, I guess it is no more a negative thing than all the other poliferation of "BILLIONS OF IMAGES" (Carl Sagan) LOL

I have been a photographer all my life almost and have no need for others approval of me. I have a prosperous studio and have belonged to many stock agencies and have been published worldwide for outdoor adventure sports photography hundreds or thousands of times over. Whats the point ?

I don't know what the answer is or if there is one. Just here for exploring what few others ever bring up.

By the way, perfect exposures, exact color or a million variations of B+W tones don't mean much to me ! I am an artist...right !

[rileypm]

That is the whole point. We don't know that you are an artist or for that matter a photographer. Until you post some photos, we don't know what you are. Maybe just a blow hard.

[jellophoto]

Akjack,

Tend to agree with Michael. We have no way of knowing if you are an artist and sounds like we never will.

I do not know what an artist is anyway. It is difficult to define. In the UK there are a number of so called artists fashionable at the moment, who I would not call artists at all. They are simply masters of self promotion. Conversely there is a Scottish painter who is also popular at the moment. The critics deride him for his 'popularist style', but to my eye he is very good and deserves his success. All very subjective.

Having read your posts I think you have probably answered your own questions.

Regards John

[pinemikey]

I've been taking pictures for over 20 years and have always considered it a hobby, but I know a healthy proportion of it is art even if it never ever got a whiff of a "famous magazine". It's art because I say it's art and I certainly don't need some pompus art school major or some other full of crap "pro" dropping names and places as if that's what is required to be a great photographer.

How about getting aboard the modesty train and give us all here a break?

[sean_mcr]

Any good photographer knows a bad one when they see one. Their ignorance is reflected in their photographs, sometimes they are foolish enough to express that in other ways, in a forum for example. There is little that is more autobiographical then our photographs, you can often tell how passionate somebody is by their work, and you can sometimes tell how dull they are to.

Some people are born dumb and they die dumb. Some people take bad photos all their life and remain ignorant of this medium, they'll struggle to create anything meaningful within it because they have little understanding of it.

You can't concern yourself with such people, there's nothing to be gained from it



I wish you success in what you do



Sean

[pinemikey]

If a pompous ass spouts on for an hour and an half about a photograph, even reaching into the stratosphere of existential thought but no one is around to hear such drivel, do the words have any meaning? A pompous ass needs an audience in which to perform his little song and dance.

To imply ignorance whilst being on the very edge of being unable to spell one's own name is the height of ignorance. Who is the final arbiter of excellence? Certainly not a self imposed fop who quotes by rote the latest "artistic" folderol from page 345.

Only the person who actually took the photo has the right to call it art or not. Sure, the consensus may think it is poor, but that doesn't overrule the initial decision. To put out photographs that are popular and sell doesn't necessarily connotate photographic excellence or artistic prowess. Look to Monet et al who broke with tradition to create a whole new era of artistic expression. At the time their art was considered garbage by the threatened class. It's easy enough to judge now the art introduced before them as poor because theirs was so excellent but it was only considered excellent when the "experts" smelled which way the wind was going and jumped on the bandwagon and started making money from it.

I'll grant that it's more than likely actual great art will be recognized by the masses but only when they have a chance to see and judge for themselves. However, in today's world there have been too many self imposed "experts" who try and act as filters to the unwashed ignorant consumers. The "experts" are the people who are more and more being sidelined by the little people taking their own digital photos and being pleased with their own results, tossing the numbers of the "pro" photographers in the trashcan. Oh those poor ignorant people, if only they would realize that their photos that they hold most dear are not officially sanctioned as "art". Why, they would be on the phone in an heartbeat to get the latest "expert" to do the very same thing they could do for themselves with their own camera.

Trust me, the "experts" are concerned about it. They need a bandwagon to hitch themselves to, for they are much too much afraid of having to decide which way to go for themselves.

[sean_mcr]

You'd get an A at keyboard skills, Mike, i bow to you.

Have you considerd joining a photography class?

[sean_mcr]

I don't know what the answer is or if there is one. Just here for exploring what few others ever bring up.

It has been brought up many times before, jack. The exact same thing was said when dry plates replaced the wet plate, paving the way for the hand camera.

Not all photography is art; not all photography has to be art to be commercially successful. I say fair play to anobody that wants to make money out of taking corperate head shots. It would kill me, but good luck to them


I was offered a lucrative deal not so long ago that i declined because i felt that it flew in the face of what i believed and what i cared about. Very commercial, quite safe but to me, quite dull. Anybody that wants such work can be my guest


Art and commercial photography are two different beasts. But it's very hard to make a good living in either pursuits, but even more so for the former. All but gone are the days where you could stumble off the street and become renowned, some of the photographers i love most were self taught and i will be forever grateful for what they did for photography. But it's rare to see anybody today in this country that can get a job in a paper or magazine that has not had some form of formal training, you simply can not buy a 5D and walk in to a picture editors office witha few shots of a demo and expect to be taken seriously.


You can't buy a few grands worth of gear and become a succesful photographer in a matter of months; it's a myth and an old one.




Sean

[pinemikey]

You'd get an A at keyboard skills, Mike, i bow to you.

Have you considerd joining a photography class?

It's not just knowing how to use a keyboard, it's all about giving a damn what you are saying. If you think you have enough mental horsepower to wax philosophic about all things photographic, then surely a little spell checking is not too taxing on your delicate artistic sensibilities.

I'm always willing to learn new things and unlearn bad habits. I've stated more than a few times in my galleries and in these forums that I have no formal photographic education. That places me in the 85% range of all photographers. Despite it being a profession to some, it is merely a hobby to more. Even you could maybe learn a smidgen of something.....maybe modesty....in a class full of photographic rubes.

[rileypm]

Now, now, pinemikey. Who are we going to worship if not the self proclaimed PHOTOGRAPHY GODS who are flocking to our forums to tell us how bad the results of our hobbies are? How are we to possibly enjoy our photographic hobby without such GODS telling us how worthless our photos are? How are we to excell without the GODS pointing out our ignorance?

[sean_mcr]

You'd get an A at keyboard skills, Mike, i bow to you.

Have you considered joining a photography class?

It's not just knowing how to use a keyboard, it's all about giving a damn what you are saying. If you think you have enough mental horsepower to wax philosophic about all things photographic, then surely a little spell checking is not too taxing on your delicate artistic sensibilities.

I'm always willing to learn new things and unlearn bad habits. I've stated more than a few times in my galleries and in these forums that I have no formal photographic education. That places me in the 85% range of all photographers. Despite it being a profession to some, it is merely a hobby to more. Even you could maybe learn a smidgen of something.....maybe modesty....in a class full of photographic rubes.

Mike, you're a smart guy, i see that. But i can't always spot spelling mistakes, spell checkers even fail at times, more times then you'd realise. Thus far i have resisted pointing out to you what i would have thought by now to be so obvious as to be staring you right in the face. I'm afraid that if you are going to continue reading any of my posts, you're going to have to put up with it, it's not something i can control as well as i'd like to. I have even misspelled my forename and my surname in the past Michael, and i'm sure that i will do it again at some point in time. But still, i sense it's what i'm getting at and not how i'm saying it that's displeasing you


Now i'm sure we can agree that this is getting old. You're not going to stop me posting in this forum in the way that i do.

I want every single person that lifts up a camera to love what they do. photography is a good thing in a persons life and i do not believe for a moment that art has to be attached to a living.

Just do what you enjoy Mike, discuss what you enjoy discussing, and let me do the same

[sean_mcr]

Now, now, pinemikey. Who are we going to worship if not the self proclaimed PHOTOGRAPHY GODS who are flocking to our forums to tell us how bad the results of our hobbies are? How are we to possibly enjoy our photographic hobby without such GODS telling us how worthless our photos are? How are we to excell without the GODS pointing out our ignorance?

Our forum?


That about says it all

[madlights]

I got this theory from Albert Einstein one day, he told me that 'art' is a 'relative' term... I said relative to what? and he didn't answer.

[sean_mcr]

I got this theory from Albert Einstein one day, he told me that 'art' is a 'relative' term... I said relative to what? and he didn't answer.

Barri, pay no attention to Einstein; his spelling was as bad as mine

But anybody that has any worries about grammar on forums should not fear, for help is at hand. The League Of Obsessive Nitpickers, aka 'L.O.O.N' will allow you to get things off your chest

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/A1095716

[akjack]

I agree with many of you on various points. I might add that I have never viewed a photo on this site or feel the need to as I have saw billions in my life and don't expect to see anything earth shakeing here. Never addmitted to being a good speller, just a fair thinker.

One thing I am amazeing at is how some photogs call themselves an artist but yet, photography is the only art they have ever done. In fact that is how I usually judge photogs myself is... how many other art forms have they mastered.

Photography is only one of many art forms for me, it just happens to be my main one for sheckels.($$$$$)

I think that now marketing has superceded photography in the marketplace. This magazine I spoke of above seems to have glowing articles about photogs that are only blowing smoke to promote themselves and their mundane images,,,pretty sad !

I admit that I am jaded on photography and bored of it to a degree but still remain a lifelong advocate of the all seeing eye which simply means I have interest and wonder about all things life has to offer. The old man, office clerk, with the white wolly hair that invented quantum theory said pretty much the same, because in the end that is about all you can say !