A Discussion on a working NSFW filter

[kstuebin]

@Ray, I did think about that but I thought this forum got more views than Feature Requests. I'm not sure Slug and Emily see anything on any forum since they rarely respond but I thought users would be more likely to see it here. However, it is actually a Feature's Request. So you are correct. A couple of members have pm'd me that there are spreading the word by linking to this thread so I don't know that I would move it if I could. Which I can't as far as I can tell.

Mildred has started a thread on Feature Requests. So I guess now there are two.

[ellisonphotography]

When I posted my first message in this thread a few days ago I also sent an email to the pbase helpdesk pointing out what's going on and with a link to this thread.
Haven't heard anything back yet...

[clickaway]

Karen, I'm not looking at that video you mentioned, but I imagine it has nothing to do with PBase. I mean, PBase does not do videos and what does PBase daughter mean.

Without looking, I imagine the resultant web site includes PBase because you have put it in Google. I've encountered a similar mechanism with searches on 'hotel'/'train station' etc. together with some small village name. Up comes a website with that village's name telling me there is no hotel or train station in the locale! What that is a template web site that just insert's the village name.

[mananee]

Clickaway, just google pbase porn and the first item is Eddsimages, A star is born. Overt erotica, no holds barred. Why here, with no filter? Why among the populars for the past week, a gallery exhibiting vulvas and clitorises on smiling models? Are these galleries family friendly? Is this redeeming art?

[kstuebin]

@Ray, you're right. The video was not on Pbase. However, all the listings above it were. As Mildred pointed out, the first listing in the Google search is "A Star is Porn" by eddsimages. It features sex acts. Graphically. I'm not researching this any more. It's bad enough when it pops up on the Pbase home page and you have to see it. I always log in there which is how I became aware of how far this had gone. I'm not even convinced actual Pbase members are voting for these galleries. Nobody ever comments that they voted. I bet there is a way to scam the voting system and the photograpers are taking full advantage of it.

[cjphipps_servo]

I agree with this post and the others concerned about the problem~ I see it as a problem~ and I am reluctant to promote pBase because of the problem. Carol

I think it is time to open a discussion on Pbase having a working NSFW filter like every other major photo site. I emailed Emily about this but I have never heard back. I was seeking some insight to what Pbase's policy even is.

In the past month, the popular galleries have been dominated by hard and soft porn. Some of us can't call this art. We are not prudes. Some of it is even called porn by the photographers or at least the models are porn "stars." Art is subjective. I understand that.

I find it interesting that these galleries get voted to the top with very few comments. Obviously, even the people voting for them aren't willing to say they did.

Here is how other photos sites handle nudity or semi nudity. The photographer marks a level for his gallery. It can be something like "safe", "moderate" or "NsFW." The user then picks a level they're comfortable with and selects it and they see what they want and don't see what they don't want to see.

The other part is since you must join the site to use this feature, "moderate" and "NSFW" are never visible to visitors. That is not the case now with Pbase. Anyone can see these galleries. Kids can see them. Deviants, and they're out there, can see them.

I think this is a fair solution for everyone involved. I don't know how much programming it would take to implement or if Pbase even wants to implement it but I think they should let us know what their direction is going to be.

There are people now calling this site PornBase. If no other reason, than to respect the photographers who don't want to be associated with porn or nudity or even "art" nudity, I would think Pbase would want to have a working filter.

Which brings me to my last point. There is a NSFW filter on Pbase. However, it is not a public filter and as far as I can tell, it doesn't even block anything. I have it enabled and I see every new nude gallery that comes out and gets voted up to the top.

Please don't tell me to just not click on these galleries. I don't. That's not the point. The point is that it's there to begin with whether I don't want to see it or not. I think everyone's viewpoint should be respected and I think the way other photo sites handle it is fair to everyone.

[1moremile]

I used to tell friends where my photos are. I don't any more since I saw that stuff. I don't think there is any way anyone with half a brain could let that slide as art.

[clickaway]

Clickaway, just google pbase porn and the first item is Eddsimages, A star is born. Overt erotica, no holds barred. Why here, with no filter? Why among the populars for the past week, a gallery exhibiting vulvas and clitorises on smiling models? Are these galleries family friendly? Is this redeeming art?

I have no interest in googling PBase porn, in fact I have no interest in googling porn with any other word or on its own.

If you read my initial post you will see that I am pro-NSFW filter, but I am not so sensitive as others on nudes, maybe because I don't have a family to share any images with and I have now retired so workplace is not an issue for me either.

But that is not the point. Having a NSFW filter is just good practice.

Also, I gave up looking at the popular images and galleries on PBase many years ago as the whole thing is pointless. They are not necessarily the best or more interesting photos on here, just the ones belonging to the people who choose to comment a lot and therefore receive a lot more in return which results in their popularity. I have a couple of photographers in my favourites who do tastleful art nudes, but they are the only nudes I see here because of the way I use PBase.

And what should this filter include? I actually find images of guns abhorent as they often represent violence, but I don't get in a tiz over that.

Ray

[mananee]

Ray, the thread is getting lost here. As I see it, it is not about nudes per se, it is about the depiction of female body parts in ways that debase women. Why perpetuate sexual objectivization on a site where such images are objectionable to many? You agree for a need for a filter. Then we are on the same page. No need to preach to the choir. As for popularity, yes, "not necessarily the best or more interesting." So what, here's where your judgement decides.
As for your statement, "I actually find images of guns abhorent as they often represent violence, but I don't get in a tiz over that," maybe you should. Getting into a tiz over what we find abhorrent, is a way of getting others to weigh in, to wake up from their somnolence, and to participate in a democracy.

[clickaway]

Mildred,

As I understand it, this thread is about the use of a filter for explicit/nude images on PBase and not about the exploitation of women which is a whole different subject!

Please start a new thread if that is what you want to talk about, but you won't get me dragged in to that one, and have really written enough now on the original subject too.

Good Night,

Ray.

[lainesphotos]

My understanding is this thread is about applying a filter just as Ray said...I entered because it is the easy access and visibility of what I'm seeing on the POP Galleries and therefore your opinion is your right Mildred, but please don't speak for me on matters that concern you..this is not about gender it's about we the clients asking management to listen and respond to a request.

[mairead]

I too would favour a NSFW filter. I rarely look at the popular galleries but when I do I cannot fail to notice that they are dominated by 'nudes' artistic or otherwise, and some with absolutely no artistic merit. And having looked at these galleries, I most certainly wouldn't want to be advising people to look at my images here.
I've also noticed that a lot of professional photographers who used to have galleries here seem to have left. Perhaps that is one of the reasons. I can't imagine anyone doing work for schools/sporting groups etc would want to be displaying their work side by side with porn.
The presence of these galleries means that Pbase is often blocked in areas with free wi-fi.

[amoxtli]

I agree with Ray's Statement that the popular images and galleries on PBase are pointless. Just because they are popular does not make them good. And as Karen pointed out galleries with very few comments make it to the top regularly. I also suspect that some users are able to "hack" their way to the top. By the way, I just looked at the first page of the most popular photos and galleries and there is not a single nude thumbnail to be seen.

While I agree that a NSFW filter which is set by the user to the level of their comfort zone would be a good feature to have as pointed out in the original post, there are some problems. How would first time visitors set their preferences? Would they know how? Would they want to? How is it determined if an image is NSFW? How far is too far? Who decides this? Is this not censorship?

I have always liked PBase because it is a place where photographers can express themselves and interact with one another in a free environment. If I don't like something, I don't look at it and that goes for non-nude galleries as well. I can see how some of the nude images can offend viewers, but how do we deal with some of the hateful and racist PBase galleries some of which greatly offend me and which are far worse in malice and intent than a nude model shoot? Do we censor them as well? I think we should be very careful about censorship. We need to find a rational way to deal with this.

Best Regards,

Walter

[dw_thomas]

I agree with Walter that this can be a two-edged sword, further complicated by the fact that the process would be relying on image posters having the integrity to properly rate their images. In general, when I direct someone to my galleries, I supply a URL to take them right to the gallery I want to show them. Beyond that, I have no more control over what they look at any more than I have control over content posted by others. If a viewer chooses to explore, I don't see that it's my fault if they stumble across something that upsets them.

In a quick look at help, I don't see a way to Ignore/Block specific users (but I'm vaguely recollecting there might be one). If that is or could be made available, one could at least make some of the dirtballs invisible to one's self. Like Walter, I have seen at least one site full of racist, political garbage that I find far more offensive than any human body. Whenever I see the word "porn" used, I begin to worry, as it seems, depending on the viewer who is complaining, the meaning of that word can range from explicit sex acts (which I agree we don't need here) down to showing a little ankle!

In the galleries on one forum I belong to, there is a little icon under posted images (and even posts, for that matter) to report the object to a moderator. I suppose something of that sort with a working version of NSFW could be used to allow users to monitor NSFW compliance, but it would presumably require moderators which we don't currently appear to have. And of course, this gets us back to someone somewhere making some sort of value judgement on what constitutes over the line.

There's an old saying: "If God intended us to be seen naked we'd be born without clothes on...." "Oh --- nevermind!"

DaveT

[kstuebin]

@Walter, the way it works on every other major photo site on the internet is you never see anything but safe images. Other levels are filtered out on the public level. You have to join the site to implement a filter. This protects children and anyone surfing from seeing what they might consider offensive material. I think we all know what is NSFW and where to draw the line. Do you seriously think sex acts and minors posing provocatively are appropriate anywhere? Censorship that allows people to not see they don't want to see is not really censorship. If I put a lock on the porn channels on my TV so my kids can't get on them, is that censorship? Anyone else who wants to watch them can. That is how a NSFW filter works. If a non member wants to see porn, they'll just have to join.

It's actually a simple and effective concept and completely rational. If you're on any other photo site, you can see how it works.

We can skip the whole nudity as art argument because these newer galleries are going way beyond that.

I haven't seen the racist photos myself so I can't comment on them. Nobody votes for them I guess. I would hope not anyway. But the same rules could apply to them as to porn because I wouldn't want to have to look at them either

This whole discussion is pointless anyway because management isn't going to do anything. They probably want the traffic this generates. I really have no idea what they think because they don't care to share it with anyone. Ultimately, it's their site and they can do what they want with it. And our concerns and requests can be ignored as they usually seem to be.

There are just a few of us who find this a deal breaker apparently. I find it kind of appalling actually but that's just me. There are a lot of practical reasons to not have yourself associated with porn too. It seems to me that just showing your photos here is implicitly saying you do. I don't think people stay on my page and don't visit other areas of the site and never see it. And I am talking about the actual porn and not the risque galleries. Except the risque galleries with minors which is so low, I can't even conceive of how someone could even go there.

Well, I think I've run my mouth enough about this. And I have seen more porn and learned more about it than I ever wanted to since I started this thread. :)