Going too far with the Male Nude full frontal and Slavery?!

[arifakhan]

Is this not going too far with the "Male Nude" with full frontal shots and "Slavery" with photos on bondage galleries?

I just saw two such headings in the "popular galleries".

Where are the limits here of how far can members go with their content ? Are they defined somewhere so one can read the details ?

A lot of my family and friends visit my photos here and would find it either plain offensive or in pretty poor taste. I am not sure if I wish to be associated with this kind of a site.

What do others think?

Arif

[digitalfrog]

If they browse away from your gallery it's their problem and I certainly belive people are smart enough to understand you have no responsibility nor caution what others are doing. If pbase would be specialised in 'nude themes' and your gallery would be the only one in the middle with houses and birds then it would be different. But it's not the case, pbase is not focusing on any specific themes.

My 2 cents.
Ralph

--
http://www.pbase.com/digitalfrog

[professor_chaos]

I'm with frog. Nudity has been accepted as a legitimate subject in photography from the begining. Adults choosing to view galleries are responsible for determining on their own what they want to view ( I know self-responsibility is a quaint idea in these times) and frankly, those who allow children to surf without supervison have bigger problems than a couple nude pics on pbase (like why they are not raising their children). I think it would be tragic if this site became censored to satisfy the sensibllities of the few. As to the issue of whether or not you wish to be associated with this site is, of course, up to you.
Rodney

[matiasasun]

Where are the limits here of how far can members go with their content ? Are they defined somewhere so one can read the details ?

I haven´t found any, and I´m one of those guys that preffers to keep that "free". A matter of choices I think. But PBase do have a statement about copyright. The site is not a "storage" were you can upload pictures taken from the net. And the idea is to upload "your own work". I really don´t want to ruin nobodies party but looks to me that some of those galleries are showing pictures that have copyrights.

A lot of my family and friends visit my photos here and would find it either plain offensive or in pretty poor taste. I am not sure if I wish to be associated with this kind of a site.
What do others think?

Well to me it is a matter of choice. We have pictures of guys worshipping guns & bombs, war massacres, starving childrens, people living in garbage dumps, urban fights, and a huge lot more. The bigger the site will get the more "diverse" it will become. We need to learn to live with that, or, as you said, change to another site that explicitly does not allow things that might disturb you.

So, to show my personal point of view: I do want to be associated with a site that is open to show peoples perspective. It is everybody´s call to decide what they think about a single picture. As you can imagine the examples shown before really piss me off and make me feel sick sometimes, but those pictures don´t lie. To see or not to see; that is the question.

Law is another thing, of course.

Matias

[gillettecraig]

Since the site does allow a wide variety of subject matter, we need to understand that and supervise the viewing activities of children when we introduce them to the site. And users should warn sensitive adults or those who may be viewing from work, homes, etc., when they send them to the site, that there is material that they may not want to show up.

Parents should recognize that the internet and the filtering programs aren't perfect and supervise children while on the net anyways. As a teacher I can't depend on the school district's filtering program to work - it doesn't filter this site for example. And I have to understand that if I share my appropriate material, that savvy kids will be more than able to roam around it. And come back to it later.

Unfortunately it's difficult to easily control viewing. Making galleries private makes it hard to share with the community as a whole. Although I haven't checked recently, it might be worth checking to see if there is a way to reduce the potential for more adult material to come up unexpectedly on the random shots, popular galleries, etc.

[enchantmentstudios]

There is a thin line between "Artistic Nudes" and "Pornography" and I have to agree with arifakhan, some Gallery have crossed that line. The main reason I joined Pbase was because of the fact that many other photo viewing and sharing sites were so saturated with pornography that I would have been embarrassed to invite my friends and family to view my photos. The first statement I read when I was trying to decide whether or not to join pbase was the statement that read, " If you want to upload porngraphy, Do it somewhere else" Don't get me wrong, If you enjoy nudity thats your business, I just think that out of respect for others, a warning should be added that your gallery contains nudity, so people going to your Gallery knows what to expect and my 11 yr old daugher doesn't have to see some guys pecker hanging out when she's looking through the popular galleries. Thanks to those who on your own have included such Warnings.

[arifakhan]

I knew when I started this that there were going to be those who would say things like

Nudity has been accepted as a legitimate subject in photography from the begining.

However that is not the point I am talking about. I do know that one can find beauty in the human form. I also know that people do see art in the nude form, but that is not what I found questionable.

What I find going a step too far is

some guys pecker hanging out

Furthermore I particularly object to the Bondage photos or for that matter some similar graphic photos of women that border on Pornography.

One could argue - How do you define Pornography ?
The dictionary says it is: Sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal.

Which probably does not seem too objectionable to most. So the real question should probably be where does this website decide to draw the line ?

Where does Art cross the line to become Pornography?

How are Bondage photos considered ART? Do we wish to allow such photo galleries so that we can have diversity ?

Many of you have made reasonable comments about supervision of kids who surf the net. I think that there are limits to how much kids can be supervised and also limits to what software can do to stop access. After a certain stage/age it is a matter of trusting them to be responsable. Furthermore older kids probably need to discover the real world to some extent as all of us did when we were their age. My concern is not that my kids will come across some of those galleries and somehow think that I have anything to do with them. It is just a strong feeling of discomfort being associated with a web site that allows such material to be posted on it. Many of my friends and family see my photos on pbase and probably then go to see photos of other members. I feel strange knowing that they could stray on to a pbase gallery that has pornography on it.

[digitalfrog]

Arif,

I see your point of view.

Everyone will define vulgar, or artistic, or porno in a different way depending on their culture, background and so on. I live in Amsterdam in Europe so I can see a lot before being shocked .....
So should PBASE actually put sensorship on something I would find acceptable but you would not ?
I agree with extremes though, involving childs or similar. That's not an option. The issue is between 'normal' and before 'extreme'.
To me Pbase should and does regulate the extremes.
I don't see any other solution but the individuals to deal with the 'in betweens'.

Now, this is good because I'm an adult. As my child grows and will start to surf the net, I will probably get much closer to your opinion....

Ralph

[matiasasun]

I must say I think this kind of discussion are very neccesary. I like to think of this as a virtual debate about OUR site... After all Slug might run the place, but we´re all building it. So I´ll post some point I think are important.

One could argue - How do you define Pornography ?
The dictionary says it is: Sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal.

Interesting definition. But to me sounds very confusing in both concepts: the material itself and the sexual arousal as the purpose.

If we think like that then (a) a huge bunch of our daily publicity IS pornography, yet (b) the site that we´re talking about is not. It is pretty obvious to me that the pictures were taken as a perform, wich basically means that they are not "real"; those images are the representation of another situation (wheter we like it or not).

But what really confuses me is the last part: whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal... What is sexual? Love is... All love is. We all know that. In my personal point of view the real problem with --regular-- pornography lays in the obsesion and potentially the separation between what´s real and what´s not. We someone stops living in this planet, then porn might be bad, just as drugs use.

How are Bondage photos considered ART? Do we wish to allow such photo galleries so that we can have diversity ?

If you ask me, then yes. As you can see I`m interesting in a discussion about "limits" and all the issues that are mentioned here, but I think it is better to have a chat about those issues. In my personal point of view, it is only in diversity that one can define what´s good or wrong for him as a human being.

I agree with extremes though, involving childs or similar. That's not an option. The issue is between 'normal' and before 'extreme'. To me Pbase should and does regulate the extremes

I would also like to comment the idea of "extrems". To my understanding there are local and international laws that define a good bunch of "extremes" like abuse, and stuff like that. So I agree with Ralph, but looks like that´s not our problem, because it might be written in the stones of the law somewhere. Is that correct?...

Matias

[arifakhan]

While I agree that there is a lot of material here that many of us may find distasteful, such as:

We have pictures of guys worshipping guns & bombs, war massacres, starving childrens, people living in garbage dumps, urban fights

How do you define the followiing kind of gallery (that has surprisingly been voted as one of the "popular galleries") ?

http://www.pbase.com/sly_minx4u/happiness_in_slavery

There seems to have been a long debate, a while back, about how the pbase website has established the criteria to determine a "popular gallery". This is another situation where we should question that criteria I suppose.

Ralph I know what you mean when you say

Everyone will define vulgar, or artistic, or porno in a different way depending on their culture, background and so on. I live in Amsterdam in Europe so I can see a lot before being shocked

I have lived in the West for a pretty long time and in Montreal particularly for about 16 years. There is little that shocks me now. It is just that I find this a bit lets say, in my face, when it is right here at pbase a site where I expected to see a somewhat higher standard.

Do leave your comments about what you feel.

[mpdequalsyfsm]

We as a community do have control over most popular galleries by voting.

Take a moment to make the change......

I often do the random photos and run into some very fine galleries and take a moment to comment and vote. JMHO

[pstewart]

There is a thin line between "Artistic Nudes" and "Pornography" and I have to agree with arifakhan, some Gallery have crossed that line. The main reason I joined Pbase was because of the fact that many other photo viewing and sharing sites were so saturated with pornography that I would have been embarrassed to invite my friends and family to view my photos. The first statement I read when I was trying to decide whether or not to join pbase was the statement that read, " If you want to upload porngraphy, Do it somewhere else"

I agree. I have NO PROBLEM at all with nude shots, and I've even cast votes for a few really lovely ones. BUT... I do have a problem with some of the stuff I've been seeing here lately. Crotch shots and such meant to stimulate sexual interest are not in the same category as artful nudes celebrating the form of the body, and I'm pretty sure we all know that.

It's a shame that the management is letting users get away with degrading this wonderful photo site in this way. I wish they'd take some time to crack down on some of the worst offenders and enforce their statement above.

If they don't, the site will attract more and even worse, since it will become clear to porn pushers that Pbase allows this and they will take over the site, or a large part of it, as they've already been doing. Just take a look at how many questionable photos are in the popular photos section that are not good photos by any standards except prurient interest. The folks who VOTED for these are members...keep that in mind! The site is attracting this type of person now and will continue to do so if action isn't taken. I'd rather see the site attract more good PHOTOgraphers, not PORNOgraphers, wouldn't you?

[jc5066]

Who is to judge "fine art" or "porn"?

What line you draw to differ the two is not going to be the same for everyone.

Some may consider "fine art" porn. A nude is a nude.

I am by no means defending or against the pictures. Just something to consider. Art is in the eye of the beholder. These differances are what make humans human.

[arifakhan]

Jon and Phyllis, Thanks both for the input.

Jon I see you point but surely there has to be some standard set. When does art cross the line? Are there no limits?

Of course there are limits to everything that we do. Pbase has stated that it is not a place to have pornograph yet the stuff that is being tollerated here is at times quite clearly crossing the line and is simply porn.

Whoever in management is supposed to put their foot down and stop members when they cross the line needs to start doing what they say that they would do and crack down on these members.

If not, then the least they can do is, tell me that the stuff I have identified above is not porn in their eyes.

[mpdequalsyfsm]

I don't mean to get granular but you keep saying

Pbase has stated that it is not a place to have pornography

So I went to the Terms and Condition page to see what is written:

Acceptable content
Upload your own work.
Do not upload images you take from other web sites. Those are copyrighted.
Do not upload pornography. It is copyrighted. Collect it on your own hard drive.

NOTE The reference to pornography is if you upload images from the net to your gallery. This does not reference images photographed by a member that you would consider pornographic - not taking sides just you view the statement differently then me.


PBASE reserves the right to remove or categorize images in any way it sees fit.
If a user uploads something of questionable legality or taste, it may be removed without notice.
Users agree to accept all liability for the legality of content they submit and will not hold PBASE responsible for any damages that result.

This may be more of the statement you are referring to - but then again this is a very broad statement. It is dealing with stolen images or "questionable" taste.

I don’t understand the complaint on full male frontal nudity, is that more dangerous than female nudity? I know there are many galleries with female nude shots and no fuss or ta-do about it. The bondage gallery is but one of many at pbase – once again going through random photos you never know what will appear.

Hate to keep saying it but you gotta vote for what you want to see as popular galleries.

Please do not take this a vote in favor of these images, because it is not.