Censorship?

[kikitiki]

Let's not confuse "freedom of speech" for "opportunity to pollute".

Let's not confuse BIAS and CENSORSHIP with AMERICA either.

[pinemikey]

I say it's time to move on to another photo site people and pass the word around about this one! If anyone want's to know of a good one it's http://www.fotki.com

Bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out, bub. By the way, Fotki sucks.

[yippee2000]

While I was never a big fan of Don's, I too am bothered by the fact that his galleries have apparently been removed. Don posted images and words that many people did not agree with. Surely other people have done the same here, but it's just that this particular subject matter (Bush vs. Kerry) brings up alot of strong emotions in people. I'm sure the real issue wasn't that he may have used images that were not his own, as others have done that here as well. The problem was that Don was rather extreme in voicing his opinions within the particular gallery. But you know what? So was everybody else, myself included. Everybody who wrote into that gallery helped to create this "disturbance". If we were bothered by it, all we had to do was hit our "back" button. But all of us who wrote in to Don's gallery did so voluntarily. There was nothing illegal etc. about his photoes. We just didn't like his point of view, or the manner in which he expressed it.

Pbase is for sharing photoes with others. And often times the galleries include background information, comments, etc., some of which we may not agree with. We can't start saying that political photoes are "inappropriate", because then, what about "patriotic" photoes? What about documentary-style photoes from the West Bank or Iraq? Will those be inappropriate too?

If we all agreed with Don and his thoughts on Bush/Kerry, there wouldn't BE any disturbance, now would there?

What's ironic here is that Don's gallery was touting the current administration, one which has been removing our civil liberties one by one. And then Don himself has his voice squelched.

[erichmangl]

Slug made a good decision to remove the political galleries (including mine) , pbase is his baby and he cares about it the way he think it's right

pbase is the best site to store pictures, period.

[ukexpat]

Chris,

I'm not going to say anymore about the 'Political' bit, but Don did include a fair number of photos that were not his work in his recent 'political' gallery. I'm sure others did too. These photos may have been in the public domain, but they shoudn't have been been in his galleries, or anyone elses, whatever their nature, political or not.

PBase is for your own photography.

Where does it say that Pbase is for your own photography? Also, ANYTHING on the net without a tradmark is PUBLIC domain, that means FREE for anyone to use!

No need to raise your voice. Maybe you should read the terms of service -- they are the contractual context for all of who take out paid memberships: http://www.pbase.com/tos. If admins do not enforce the ToS, there will be anarchy.

The problem with Don is that, although he is a talented photographer, he is extremely unpleasant to those who do not share his political views. I know because I have been on the receiving end.

[zevs]

Hi all!

In my view, removing these political agitation sites was a really good thing. Not necessarily because they contained these or those specific pictures, but because the galleries created an atmosphere of bad feelings and even hatred among us. The increased heat and intensity on both sides made it get really ugly. People on both sides were verbally abused and if what they said didn't fit with the political view of the gallery, they were rudely told to leave and their posts deleted. We don't need that behaviour at PBase, there are other media for that kind of thing and I'm glad Slug took action and helped us restore some order.

Concerning missing other normal galleries, I see for example that Don's The Beauty of Rain (one of my favorites) is still on the Popular list, so it is not gone at all. It might have been moved down due to a reaction though among PBase users who decided to vote for other galleries instead as a kind of protest against the political galllery. Looking closer at Don's galleries it seems to me that most of the ones I remember still are there at http://www.pbase.com/minoltaman/root , so not sure there really is an issue with this. I might be wrong of course, but I can't imagine Slug would take action against anything else than the political galleries. We do want to have Don's beautiful galleries still on PBase of course!

The only reason I can see for anything else, would of course be if there has been going on things behind the scenes that we haven't seen. If that is the case I'm sure Slug will explain it all in due time.

Take good care now all of you and lets get back to our photography!

Zevs

[kikitiki]

I say it's time to move on to another photo site people and pass the word around about this one! If anyone want's to know of a good one it's http://www.fotki.com

Bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out, bub. By the way, Fotki sucks.

Hey mikey why don't you go stick your head where the sun don't shine. weirdo!

And to you who said I was yelling, look again would ya...No caps there.

[framewerkz]

Thought you were leaving us for Fotki?

[pinemikey]

Typical immature flammer. Anyone disagrees and they get insulted. Why don't you just go over to fotki and be a happy little camper?

[texindian]

I personally would not want to get involved in what was apparently a vitriolic exchange between those on the right and those on the left. Anyone else who did, that was certainly their perogative. If they voluntarily engaged in a verbal confrontation, that was their choice. They could leave anytime they wanted. Where do they have any right to complain when they voluntarily joined the fray? Now if Don was going around leaving 'disturbing' posts on other members' galleries, that would be irritating for sure, but how would that be any different than the others leaving posts in his galleries that were disturbing to him? I don't know Don at all, but it sounds like these exchages took place primarily in his Galleries.

At Nigel's urging, I reviewed the Terms of Service. Here's what they say about removal:

"If a user uploads something of questionable legality or taste, it may be removed without notice."

That's pretty vague but it sounds like we're talking about pornography and stolen images, i.e. not from the public domain. I don't see anything there about political viewpoints. You might say 'What about the paragraph heading that says:

"PBASE reserves the right to remove or categorize images in any way it sees fit."'

One of the basic rules of contract construction (interpretation) is that paragraph headings and captions are meaningless under the law. It is the content of the paragraphs that create the contractual relationship. This is not rocket science here - this is freshman law school stuff.

One thing the owners and/or administrators might consider is that they have chosen to engage in interstate and international commerce by operating pbase. Thus they are subject to not only the contractual relationships they create, but also all relevant state and federal laws regarding free speech and discrimination. They are not a 'state' agency, so many of the familiar restrictions would not apply, but the old days of "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" are long gone, especially after you've already taken their money..

Their contract obligations would be seperate and apart from any state or federal regulations. Another basic tenet of contract construction is that any vagueness will be interpreted against the party who drafted the agreement...pbase in this instance. Sounds like Don could have himself a lawsuit if he wanted to throw a lot of money away on principle. If the powers of pbase want to go around deleting people's images for no better reason than this, they better get themselves a lawyer and write a much better contract.

BTW, I have been a government attorney for most of my 25+ years of practice, so I'm not just whistling Dixie here. I don't know anyone who was involved in this affair, but it troubles me greatly that pbase would arbitrarily go around deleting galleries on this basis. I'd rather they spent their time chasing down those tasteless biker-chick promos that get posted in my galleries with a link to a gallery even Hustler would be above promoting.

[chuckh]

I am curious WHY Don's gallery was deleted and yet Ted L's gallery remains???http://www.pbase.com/automat42/our_america

Double standard????

[ukexpat]

I am curious WHY Don's gallery was deleted and yet Ted L's gallery remains???http://www.pbase.com/automat42/our_america

Double standard????

Maybe Slug was not aware of the contents of ted's gallery?

[pinemikey]

Anybody consider how the vote counts were being made? Multiple voting would cause an artifical "popularity" of a gallery. Maybe this is the reason for removals.

[ukexpat]

Anybody consider how the vote counts were being made? Multiple voting would cause an artifical "popularity" of a gallery. Maybe this is the reason for removals.

I think that's partly it. Also they were degenerating into usenet-type slanging matches between certain individuals which is hardly in the spirit of PBase.

[pinemikey]

All I know is they can take their stinking political crap someplace else. If they love it so much, create your own website and have a fun time swallowing and spitting so much acid.