Going too far with the Male Nude full frontal and Slavery?!

[arifakhan]

Jill, Thanks for all the details above.

I knew that someone would bring up the male vs. female angle.

Both are incorrect in my eyes. If there are Crotch shots I feel that we getting into territory that starts to border on porn. There must be other suitable places suitable for photographers to share such material if they wish to. Why here at pbase?!

I suppose it is difficult to define porn, but what I wish to see is that someone start setting limits or making the call. If this continues unchecked there will be proliferation of it at pbase.

I certainly am not happy with the situation that I see and will not continue to tollerate it as though it does not exist.

I see your point about voting for popular galleries, but that does not stop members from voting for porn galleries if they see fit. The question I raise is - Do members want to see these images here at pbase? If not, then please say something about it. If you consider something as porn then please talk about it or you will increasingly continue to see it here.

[digitalfrog]

One way to 'fix' this would be to have users subscribe to 'access levels":
- all public
- potentially offending
- adult only
Maybe better categories could be found but it's to make a point...

Then each picture should be classified by the publisher in one of the categories above.

Users would see all or a subset of all depending on the access level they subscribe to.

It's not 100% safe, but might help a bit ?

Ralph

[pstewart]

If they don't, the site will attract more and even worse, since it will become clear to porn pushers that Pbase allows this and they will take over the site, or a large part of it, as they've already been doing. Just take a look at how many questionable photos are in the popular photos section that are not good photos by any standards except prurient interest. The folks who VOTED for these are members...keep that in mind! The site is attracting this type of person now and will continue to do so if action isn't taken. I'd rather see the site attract more good PHOTOgraphers, not PORNOgraphers, wouldn't you?

This bears repeating, I think. Our site membership is changing, and will continue to change, and eventually it may well become a soft porn site, or worse. If we want to save our site, we have to enforce guidelines about "questionable taste" now. Many of us are questioning the taste of some members who post pics bordering on porn.

WARNING: If we don't fix it now it will be too late as the porners keep comin' and the respectable photographers take a pass and place their work elsewhere!

I like the idea of different categories of memberships. But the site software will have to upgraded to be sure certain categories cannot make it into popular galleries/photos in this public forum. They could have their own password protected area for the same purpose.

[moxfactor]

as of all post regarding censorship of nudity, i will continue to argue the point that. whilst people are considering censoring a piece of human anatomy, children are allowed to roam freely to see mpeg files of the American being beheaded in Iraq, teenager cat fights in school, photographs of general violence.

where's the sense in that? the continual tabooing of sex(especially when it's only photographs of 1 person, not performing sexual acts to themselves) while condoning violence. then in reality teaching morals the other way around... more or less confuses children in what's right and what's not.

so. if male nudity is oppressed and war/violence related photographs are not, then I think there's a serious problem with this society's mentality.

again remember, you are talking about pictures of individuals, not performing sexual acts (i chose not to look at these photos because I'm not interested in nude males). unlike Canadian versions of Playboy now allowing photographs of penetration (yes, Playboy is an adult magazine, but do you think kids don't find ways to buy or see it?).

[moxfactor]

How do you define the followiing kind of gallery (that has surprisingly been voted as one of the "popular galleries") ?

http://www.pbase.com/sly_minx4u/happiness_in_slavery

ah, now this gallery contains mainly copyrighted photographs. the H.R.Giger gallery has many photographs from Giger's published works of art. Same with the Bondage gallery (eg. Dita von Teese, etc...)

if the gallery owner did not have approval to post these photos, then they are in violation and said "pictures from the net" should be removed immediately. sexual or not.

[matiasasun]

If they don't, the site will attract more and even worse, since it will become clear to porn pushers that Pbase allows this and they will take over the site, or a large part of it, as they've already been doing.

Just take a look at how many questionable photos are in the popular photos section that are not good photos by any standards except prurient interest. The folks who VOTED for these are members...keep that in mind! The site is attracting this type of person now and will continue to do so if action isn't taken. I'd rather see the site attract more good PHOTOgraphers, not PORNOgraphers, wouldn't you?

This bears repeating, I think. Our site membership is changing, and will continue to change, and eventually it may well become a soft porn site, or worse.

If we want to save our site, we have to enforce guidelines about "questionable taste" now. Many of us are questioning the taste of some members who post pics bordering on porn.

WARNING: If we don't fix it now it will be too late as the porners keep comin' and the respectable photographers take a pass and place their work elsewhere!

I honestly think you´re wrong. In almost everything you said. Really.
I don´t think PBase will become a porn site (or something "worse"), I don´t think we can discuss what do people vote for and I REALLY REALLY don´t like the idea of censorship.

Matias

[erichmangl]

Do not upload pornography. It is copyrighted. Collect it on your own hard drive.

this line makes me wonder what slug thought when he wrote it, because it makes absolutely no sense

[pstewart]

I honestly think you´re wrong. In almost everything you said. Really.
I don´t think PBase will become a porn site (or something "worse"), I don´t think we can discuss what do people vote for and I REALLY REALLY don´t like the idea of censorship.

Well, I hope that I AM wrong...but I see the direction Pbase is heading, so I'm not as confident as you are.

I don't much care for censorship in general, but there should be lines drawn somewhere, and I would draw one at crotch shots and galleries showing sexual practices and/or simulated sex. Why? Because the net is full of porn already...we don't need more here. One problem I have with what I've been seeing here is the lack of photographic excellence in so many of these galleries. As I said, I've even voted for some great nude shots, but a lot of what is getting votes here includes some pretty bad photography of sexual subject matter, popular only because it makes the viewer drool, I suppose.

[arifakhan]

Moxfactor writes

again remember, you are talking about pictures of individuals, not performing sexual acts

Well look here at a few examples
LINKS REMOVED


Do you think that these are not porn? Give me a break. They do not belong here even if there are aspects in them that may look like art. The content is porn in my eyes and not suitable for pbase.

As far as the comments about beheadings, other violence or movies of inappropriate material is concerned, I think you are right that it should definitely not be there either. However you and I cannot police the whole Internet. We can make an attempt to keep our own website clean to an extent, because it is associated with you and I.

All we need is an agreement amongst ourselves at the level of tolerance we will set.

Weather one of us finds such photos disgusting or not is not the point. The point is that there must be a different place that this member can publish them. I just think that they should not be here at pbase. I am not trying to police the whole world, but can't we make an effort in our own backyard.

Secondly if you say that there will be no censorship at all I think that is just crazy. You could potentially have some pretty sick stuff if you allow ANYTHING to be posted. There obviously have to be some limits set. Let us try to do that we some level of sanity and decency.

[jc5066]

Jon and Phyllis, Thanks both for the input.

Jon I see you point but surely there has to be some standard set. When does art cross the line? Are there no limits?

Of course there are limits to everything that we do. Pbase has stated that it is not a place to have pornograph yet the stuff that is being tollerated here is at times quite clearly crossing the line and is simply porn.

Whoever in management is supposed to put their foot down and stop members when they cross the line needs to start doing what they say that they would do and crack down on these members.

If not, then the least they can do is, tell me that the stuff I have identified above is not porn in their eyes.

Personally I think penatration shots are questionable at the very least. All I can suggest is to try to contact PBase and let them know of your conserns. It would be very hard at the least to monitor all galleries with-out member help.

[pstewart]

Good examples of the problem, Arif. Please send that list to Slug right now. He is good about taking care of such things, but you have to point them out.

[bobt54]

It is clear from reading this topic that there are quite a variety of opinions of what is acceptable versus what is objectionable. It is also clear that we have to balance the rights of a consenting adult with the rights of those who find such images repulsive. I have no problem with the nude human form. It is just that there are countless thousands of pornographic and nude photography sites on the Internet. In contrast there are relatively few quality photographic sites out there. Can we please have a site where we can show off our sunset, travel, flower & landscape pics to our Moms, sisters, kids, friends and other family members and feel confident that they will not see anything of a sexual nature? That is unless they voluntarily choose to do so.

The rights of those who wish to view galleries of a sexual nature should neither be superior to nor inferior to the rights of those who wish not to see these types of galleries. We can accommodate both by giving these galleries there own space with it's own front door. That way anyone who chooses to view such material actively consents to doing so. Arif wasn't browsing in search of porn. It found him in the popular galleries when he clicked Next. At the very least we need to keep these galleries away from public view in much the same way the political galleries were handled.

[matiasasun]

Can we please have a site where we can show off our sunset, travel, flower & landscape pics to our Moms, sisters, kids, friends and other family members and feel confident that they will not see anything of a sexual nature? That is unless they voluntarily choose to do so.

All right. Agreed. But then don´t look at the populars.
I´m not joking. It is serious. Those pictures were voted to the top of the list, and we can all presume there were several users that voted for those pictures.
I see your point of view and sounds really interesting. I really like the idea of be able to choose what you see, so maybe the idea once Slug mentioned about having categories and stuff like that might be in order. But when it comes to the "populars" (for example) as a pure show of what WE think is good and might be seen by the rest, I´m not sure if it´ll work.
As I see it when we click on the "popular link" we are accepting to see other´s opinion. The real content of those is secondary, what creates those galleries are the judgement of others. And --even if it might sound weird to a few here-- I reallly think those pictures (slavery & stuff) can be considered art by a huge bunch of people. I mean; we copuld think those pictures were not voted to molest others here; they might have being voted according the idea of the populars.

To me the idea of being able to choose is great. I really like it. I do also think self-regulation can help a little bit (the gallery we´re talking about DID remove the vote option, as we could check). But I wouldn´t agree with a procedure that might become cencorship to what can be voted or not (or, what is the same; what can be seen or not).

Matias

[stanb]

I think perhaps the answer to thi sis not suppression of such material - after all in some parts of the world even the sight of a female face is damn near illegal, but to provide a content filter similiar to that recently introduced on photosig. that way viewers may select between seeing g - rated material, suggestive / artful figure or more extreme material )not just of a sexual nature) . needless to say it does have to b emonitored - no doubt explicit shots will occassionally be mis rated , but admin is usually quick to respond to anyone's email

[arifakhan]

Thanks Phyllis, I did contact admin.

Bob, I appreciate your input. I could not have said it better myself.

We do have a pretty high level of tollerence but there will always be those who will try to push to see how far they can go with posting lurid material on pbase.

Perhaps those who think that this kind of material is okay on the same website as their own photographs do not really share their material with family and friends, or don't care if their family should see that kind of material while browsing through pbase photos.

There are limits to everything that we do in life. Get real!