Check out today's most popular photo (contains nudity)

[ethicalheretic]

Hi Bob,

Well, at the risk of making us both look like lunatics, I'll continue this discussion for at least one more post.

I don't know if the image offends you or not, and I really don't care if it does. I'm sure it offends many people, and I'm sure it doesn't offend many others. I know it does not offend me, but I don't expect everyone to see the world, or a stranger's flesh, the same way I do. Dang it.

You take issue with my choice of the word "combat". Let me offer you the definition via an online dictionary:

1.To oppose in battle; fight against.
2. To oppose vigorously; struggle against. See Synonyms at oppose.
v.intr.
3.To engage in fighting; contend or struggle.

I personally don't think that word choice was "over dramatic" but just dramatic enough... but who really cares?

As for your pasting all your posts and highlighting them... Yes, I did read them previously. You refer to the popularity of the photograph as "about to become a problem". I asked you if you had posted similar things on all the other nude photos that pop up in the popular images and popular galleries pages. You did not answer that. Do you think they too are "problems" or only this one? Looking back, I see some much more sexually suggestive nudes in the popular photos section. I cannot help but wonder why this one in particular is the one you concerned yourself with.

Regarding what you wrote here: "Then how many of you think this is appropriate for children to see? Should we not also be sensitive to those who choose not to see or choose not for their children to see such material?"

Approximately 3 billion people have a vagina, the other 3 billion have a penis. Why are we Americans such complete and utter prudes that we think a child seeing either one of them is "inappropriate"? They are as much a part of our bodies as our elbows are, and just as normal. My son has at least three children's books on sexuality which he's had since he was 3 or 4. There are drawings in those books that are MUCH more graphic than this particular photograph. Are they "inappropriate"? Or are they appropriate because they are drawings and not photographs?

As for having a choice, there is something that offends everyone. And it's not just nudity. Should every gallery, every photo now have to announce itself lest it offend someone who does not want to view it or does not want their child to view it? I am offended by photos of hunting, I have a somewhat loony aunt who is offended by the color red, some people are offended by photos of meat, some are offended by photos of alcohol, some are offended by political photos, some by photos of burning flags..., et cetera, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. Why is it that we feel we have to announce nudity, when having a body is the one thing all humans have in common?

Nothing personal, really, I just get sick of the puritan mentality in my country, and of the mixed messages we send here. We use sex to sell everything, there are sexual innuendos in just about every kid show, but we say it is "inappropriate" for children to actually view the naked body....

When I view an art website, I know I'll likely see nudity. When I walk into an art gallery with my son, I know there is a strong chance we'll see nudity. Everyone has the choice you suggest Pbase needs to supply: the choice of going to art sites, the choice of walking into a gallery, the choice of turning on the TV....

I could go on, it's a pet peeve of mine, but I'll try to shut up now and just post one of my older poems that only peripherally applies to the topic:

Body of Knowledge

Flesh is never weak,
only our understanding is weak.
It is our hearts that are too small
for the body’s expansiveness,
how the body opens out to enfold
all it desires.

Flesh has its own reasoning,
the body, its own memories.

~Michelle

Oh, and if I had been fired for viewing this photograph on my lunch break... I'd sue. Unless it was previously announced that one was not allowed to view art online on company computers. Would be an interesting court case, dontcha think?

[hmetal]

Then how many of you think this is appropriate for children to see?

It is "appropriate" for all who have the ability to reason. Children don't make a big deal about such things until supposedly "mature" adult puts their preconceived notions into the heads of those children, "nudity is bad, mmkay?"

Let's face it, we're not talking about s-e-x here, we're talking about simple nudity. You can see this same sight (and more, since some ladies like a full-rounded tan) on any beach that allows nude sunbathing.

I don't think this is inappropriate for a person of ANY age to view. Children, for one, will look, see that it doesn't interest them and move on. Unless they are at that gawky, quirky pubescent stage (where they will perhaps giggle), they'll just pass it right on by.

[darter02]

OK, I am not going to read this ENTIRE thread but will only respond to the first question itself.

Personally, subject matter aside, I don’t care for the lighting, composition, or color of the image. When I look at it all I can think of is an uncooked turkey shot close up. It seems to lack any sensuality. In fact, I would go so far as to say it seems to lack any sort of message at all.

Understand, it’s not that I am some great photographer who can instantly convey any message I want when I want. That is a goal I struggle to accomplish someday though.

As for it being the number one photo; I think it’s more the subject itself that has garnered the votes as opposed to any artistic merit. Should it be there? Who cares really? There are SO many photos that make the list simply because the photographer is part of a group of friends that all spend hours each day looking at each other’s work and trading votes.

Why let it bother you?

[hmetal]

As for it being the number one photo; I think it’s more the subject itself that has garnered the votes as opposed to any artistic merit. Should it be there? Who cares really? There are SO many photos that make the list simply because the photographer is part of a group of friends that all spend hours each day looking at each other’s work and trading votes.

I have to make this distinction.. I do not have any group of photographer friends nor do I ask anyone to vote for my photos. At one time, months and months ago, I did have a message in my gallery that stated, "if you like this photo, don't forget to vote," but someone pointed out to me that it was akin to begging. So, the message was removed 2 days after it was initially posted.

I don't know why people vote, and I really don't care, as long as they vote for something that they like or are passionate about.

Personally, I would rather have photos placed in the "Popular" photos list based on hits, not based on votes. Mainly because it is too easy for people that like a photo to forget (or not bother) voting for it.

IMHO, the vote system is flawed. While it's great to have people show you their appreciation for the photo/image/illustration, hit counts would seemingly be a better gauge for the "popular" photos thumbnail page.

..but, again, I digress.

[inti]

Without addressing ALL the items that this thread suggest......
Whether this or that picture deserves merit or not becomes immaterial when it becomes embroiled in the conflict of one persons ideals & morals, against anothers.
This issue, I've seen rage over other sites too - and it still goes on....
As with the POD system and political picture solution here (as two off-the -cuff examples), there are always answers/compromise to be found, as long as people think approach in a reasonable and democratic way.

[aisassipbase]

Strictly from the execution point of view, I think this subject would have benefited from a way larger aperture (not f/10) to smooth out the "prickly" skin around the vulva (Mons Pubis), using Aperture mode, not P mode. Composition seems a bit random...could be way better considering that the photographer had all the time in the world to take this shot.

[hmetal]

Strictly from the execution point of view, I think this subject would have benefited from a way larger aperture (not f/10) to smooth out the "prickly" skin around the vulva (Mons Pubis), using Aperture mode, not P mode. Composition seems a bit random...could be way better considering that the photographer had all the time in the world to take this shot.

Adolfo - Thanks for the opinion but you've made some flawed assumptions.

First, you assume that I want to see plastic skin, which is what you would get if you take away the skin's texture/"prickly" skin. Opening up the aperture would also have made the upper line more blurred, which I did not want, since the lines were the main reason for this image. I suppose a bit of selective gaussian blur could be applied to soften the prickly parts..

Second, this image was not taken in "P" mode. This was full-on manual mode, scene metered with a Sekonic L-358 flash meter, using Alien Bees strobes (B800) to illuminate the subject.

Lastly, this composition was far from "random." It took time to get the model in just the right position to have the mons pubis protrude and break the line on the upper portion of the image.

Thanks for your critique though. Everyone's opinions count and someone learns something in the end.

[bobt54]

When I posted these questions, I wanted to see how you addressed both of them. Some obviously choose to ignore one or the other. My purpose was not only for you to consider the photograph but to consider the photograph in context. In the context of Ray’s gallery I found the photograph bold, provocative and erotic. But in the context of viewing it from the public gallery, I found the image shocking and disturbing. How can one have conflicting emotions such as these? The answer is I am respectful of the feelings and beliefs of others even though I don't share their beliefs.

Some of the responses I have seen have ranged from if you don't like it go away, or don't look, to "minging", which is a delightfully British way of saying disgusting, to these images have no business in Pbase. All are valid responses but none of them takes into account the others point of view. How do we reconcile these obvious differences and still make Pbase a place for ALL photographers and viewers? The answer, of course, is compromise.

Are you willing to accept a compromise that images like these have a right to exist but that they must do so in their own galleries or a special place appropriately labeled, or should we have to choose one extreme point of view over another? This compromise is not a foreign concept. We practice it all the time by rating our movies and TV shows and keeping material involving nudity & sexuality in a separate place. Why do we do that? Because it enables us to make an informed, educated decision as to whether or not to view material of this nature.

Some of you have argued that this material IS appropriate for children, that you have shown it to your own children. That is your choice and right as a parent to inform and educate your own children as you see fit. That choice and right should apply to everyone. If you truly think this material is appropriate for ALL children I challenge you to print out these pictures and distribute them to school age children in your own communities.

Some have mentioned that this is an artistic, photographic website and nudity is to be expected, so if you have a problem with that don't enter the website. If so, why is that not clearly stated on the front page of Pbase? Why are there procedures for reporting "Objectionable" or "questionable" material in the contact area? http://www.pbase.com/contact.html Why do many of us, including Ray post warnings in the front of their galleries such as (may contain glamour/nudes/erotica)??

But my biggest complaint here is WHY IS THIS BEING IGNORED BY THE MANAGEMENT OF PBASE? Why do you give us a vehicle for reporting this material and then ignore it? It would be nice to have a response of some kind. The gallery has been stuck for the last 5 days. At least fix it. If your decision is to do nothing and allow this type of material in public areas I will respect that. After all this is your site and you are the one ultimately responsible for how this site will be viewed by the public at large.

Thank you

[erichmangl]

We practice it all the time by rating our movies and TV shows and keeping material involving nudity & sexuality in a separate place. Why do we do that?

raises another question: who are those "we" ?

[erichmangl]

and, dear bob: where is your call for the pbase-police about the current #1 of popular galleries ? how about a poll which picture is more shocking, the skull or the pussy ?

[bobt54]

We practice it all the time by rating our movies and TV shows and keeping material involving nudity & sexuality in a separate place. Why do we do that?

raises another question: who are those "we" ?

In my case "We" means the US. You don't have movie ratings wherever you are from? If not how do people know how to make an informed decision about a movie?

Regarding your other quiestion: If you are upset by it, then by all means, submit a complaint. Erich, probably a better point of comparison might have been the "pussy" and the gallery My portfolio (Art Nudes - Unlocked by James. One has to wonder why James used the picture he did to represent his gallery.

[rileypm]

Perhaps pbase's silence on this subject is their answer to those concerned. I have been a member for a year now and to expect the management to respond when members have issues with them is silly.

What it comes down to is what has been discussed over and over again in the forums. If you don't like pbase and how they operate and what is allowed to be presented, then don't visit, or look. Would you rent a home without a roof and complain to the landlord that you get wet when it rains?

Put a parental control on your computer to keep you children or yourself from connecting to pbase if it is that offensive to them or yourself.

The image in question is quite good. The fact that it has sparked such a discussion has made it a remarkable image, a work of art. The fact that it got the votes that it did is what placed it in the popular photos gallery.

Pbase management allows ALL members to choose what is popular and what is not.

[bobt54]

Perhaps pbase's silence on this subject is their answer to those concerned. I have been a member for a year now and to expect the management to respond when members have issues with them is silly.

What it comes down to is what has been discussed over and over again in the forums. If you don't like pbase and how they operate and what is allowed to be presented, then don't visit, or look. Would you rent a home without a roof and complain to the landlord that you get wet when it rains?

Put a parental control on your computer to keep you children or yourself from connecting to pbase if it is that offensive to them or yourself.

The image in question is quite good. The fact that it has sparked such a discussion has made it a remarkable image, a work of art. The fact that it got the votes that it did is what placed it in the popular photos gallery.

Pbase management allows ALL members to choose what is popular and what is not.

I wouldn't read anything into the fact that Slug has not responded. This site is notorious for ignoring complaints of all types. Images like this have been removed from the public galleries in the past.

If this site is to be known as a site that caters to art nudes than it should say so at the front of the gallery and remove the right to complain about such images. And all of you that have warnings on your galleries about nudity should remove those warnings as well as they will be meaningless.

[ethicalheretic]

If this site is to be known as a site that caters to art nudes than it should say so at the front of the gallery and remove the right to complain about such images. And all of you that have warnings on your galleries about nudity should remove those warnings as well as they will be meaningless.

You still have not ever replied to the question I have posted twice: why did you complain about THIS photo and not the many, many other nudes that have shown up in the popular photos section and/or popular galleries pages.

[rileypm]

I don't believe pbase caters to nude photos any more than it caters to landscapes, portaits, travel photos, snapshots, weddings, children, etc.

Although I could be wrong, I believe people place warnings on nude galleries as a courtesy, not a requirement.