Check out today's most popular photo (contains nudity)

[hmetal]

Again, it's Slug's website, not Bob's. Slug/Emily are the persons who set up Pbase's policies and the final arbiters of what is on or off THEIR website. You are taking out your frustration with Slug's decison on someone who disagrees with your opinion of your photo.

You're wrong, Mike. If he had only disagreed, that would have been okay with me. Other have disagreed about images in the past.

What Townsend did was not only respond negatively to my photo (which is allowed, since I agree with free speech being the number one human right), he also went on a vendetta to make sure that it DID become an issue.

Additionally, he made sure that the image became an issue by posting, "do you think this image belongs in popular galleries?" in the forums. That wasn't his intention, to get opinions. It was his intention to stir the pot. If he were just looking for opinions, he already had them. Afterall, OPINIONS are what got it to popular photos in the first place. I don't have any "photographer friends" on pBase and I rarely vote for photos myself, unless I think they are exceptionally good. I don't vote for others just to get a reciprocal vote.

Lastly, Townsend went out of his way to visit my blog (http://hmetalsblog.blogspot.com) and try to twist the facts by replying to an entry that had nothing to do with popular photos area and contending that there was some mystery "real discussion," that people didn't get to see.

So, you see, he didn't simply "disagree," he was hell bent on having his way by being the self-appointed morality squad by getting in people's faces. The weaker have caved in, but mark my words I sure won't be repressed by it.

[ralphandkylie]

O.K. Here’s the problem as I see it. Someone objects to a morally questionable photo (“The Photoâ€

[vanderstouw]

i don't know...

to disagree with someone's work is one thing... bob could very easily just made a comment on the gallery in question, saying his opinion (and hmetal may not have liked it, but who cares) and he could have quietly complained to slug.

i personally have no problem of him starting this thread either...
good for him to cause a good discussion...

but if you take a controversial stand, you need to be ready to take a beating by the people who don't agree with your stand... he isn't being quiet about his views, so there is absolutely nothing wrong with others not being quiet about theirs...

but if he is taking this little vendetta of his off pbase and going into someone esle's space, he is WAY out of line... and deserves a sound thrashing for it... it is immature, inapporpriate, and morally reprehensible.

if someone were to do that to my space, i would square up and defend myself like hmetal is doing too.

does bob want us digging around to find crap about him off pbase so we can trash him there? i doubt it...

we could have the moral/immoral discussion all day... there isn't anything wrong with that...

[ugot2bkdng]

I think Ralphandkylie's response was well thought out and cogent.

My only comment beyond what has already been said is, I object to the idea that it is a "society's" responsibility (in this case pbase) to "protect" members of that society from themselves. I have read, "Gee, if I were caught viewing that at work, I could get fired." Well Duh, don't use the office computer for surfing then. Or, "Gee, I am a parent and I don't want my kids to see nude images." Well, Duh, block pbase when your children are logged on without supervision.

Kind of like the doctor on Hee Haw.

Patient: "Doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do this."
Doctor: "Well, don't do that" (as he hits the patient over the head with a rubber chicken).

My suggestion is that a banner be added to the populars galleries that says something like, "Warning, some photos in this gallery may contain nudity." One more click to enter the gallery would be required.

Now back to photography.

Life is a photo op.........

[bushti1]

Ralph's response doesn't take account of the law. Sexual acts with children are illegal where I live as are photos of such acts. Law-makers have drawn that line for us. I presume those defending freedom of expression in this debate wouldn't quibble over images that our Governments have deemed inappropriate.

[erichmangl]

[quote="ralphandkylie"]
Respect for others is why many people label their gallery “Contains nudityâ€

[ralphandkylie]

Good point bushti1 but I'm pretty sure that as far as my argument is concerned the law is irrelevant. Laws vary from country to country and from year to year. In many countries today ‘lawmakers’ and ‘our governments’ have deemed it illegal to sell a magazine containing The Photo to minors (people under a certain age, eg 18 years old) and in many countries it would not be legal to publish it at all. Again, it comes back to respecting those whose morals are more conservative than our own and not sticking rigidly to laws that vary from place to place and year to year. I guess in this sense pbase is outside the law.


Eric wrote: “ralph, to make it sure: in your opinion have people no respect for others, if they post nudity without a warning ?â€

[neovolatile]

I think we need to examine where the offense is felt. I believe it is inside a person who has, for one reason or another, decided to feel offended. Now that decision may be quite covert. That person who feels offended may staunchly deny any responsibility for it. How many times have we heard, "You made me feel (mad, upset, angry, sad...etc)"?

All of that is denying self-empowerment, the responsibility for one's own emotional state. I have no more the power to make you mad/upset/sad than I do to make you happy/ecstatic/bored.

So if you look at a picture of one of my nudes and say you feel disgusted, please, take a moment and think about what is inside yourself that you are bringing to that picture. We artists/photographers/poets/writers/musicians can only bring one half of the act to the audience. The audience brings the other part of the picnic.

I have gotten to the point now that I lock my very best work up. I invite only those I know will look with open eyes, who will not copy or download my work, who will spend a moment critically thinking, examining the rising tide within themselves and ask: "Where does this feeling come from?"

The more we try to step upon sexuality, the more it will rear its head and in very unhealthy ways. Witness Victorian England. Witness the current "religious right" in all countries.

</Sermon mode off>
Ellsworth Weaver

[yippee2000]

I've no idea what the image is that we are talking about here. I went to htmetal or whatever's site, and don't see anything particularly bothersome.

That said, I do agree that some images/galleries and their level of popularity have more to do with the popularity of the photographer themself, or what's CONTAINED in particular images (versus the technical/artistic quality of the images). Sure, I may not like that fact, but it is what it is. There are lots of things out there in the world that I don't like or agree with, but variety is what makes things interesting, no?

[ethicalheretic]

I've no idea what the image is that we are talking about here.

Go to page 6 of this thread and scroll about half way down.

[simplephotography]

Still the same BS. A lot of Americans saying what should and should not be. I've seen the words 'liberal' and 'conservative' all over here. Well, we don't know that where we live. We have more than two political directions or even moral directions, whatever you want to call it.

I read something about sex between men and boys in connotation with Dutroux. The guy is from my country, and if you didn't know it yet; he's a psychopath. He's nowhere near a healthy man, so that part of the comment has nothing to do here. What it has to do with THE PHOTO is very unclear to me.

In most countries in Europe, the discussion would end like this: okay, so now you know you can encounter photos that can offend you in the popular gallery. If you don't want that, then skip it. On with business.

The whole BS with having to click twice, get a warning, click again, and oh wonder, there's the popular gallery. That's typically American, really. Cut the crap I say. You know it's there, so don't go there if you don't want to see it. Go find the Disney galleries instead or put another war movie in the DVD player.

Regardless of subject matter, THE PHOTO is well lit, well composed, and very graphic AND confronting. Maybe that's how hmetal meant it to be. Anyhow, he did well. Maybe you find it morally questionable. If that's the case, then move on to the next picture, because for every person who finds it questionable, there is another one who thinks it's awesome, so this picture has as much right to be in the popular galleries as any other one. Maybe even more, because it got voted number 1.

And to think Freedom of everything was the highest value in the States once. You don't know how not free you are nowadays.

And before you start beating me down: this is my opinion. OK to disagree, not OK to block off.

[erichmangl]

And to think Freedom of everything was the highest value in the States once.

at what time ? must have been before Columbus went there

i don't like your "typically american" if you mean it in general

[offtheradar]

And to think Freedom of everything was the highest value in the States once.

at what time ? must have been before Columbus went there

In all fairness, it still is. I know it's popular to trash America, so I won't try to argue it. There's still no place I'd rather be... but I can only base that on places I've been and what I know about the rest of the world.

I believe the problem arises when people mistake "freedom of" with "freedom from". For everyone who exercises "freedom of expression", there's usually a group who believe they possess an inherant right to freedom from that expression. Either way, both groups truely believe their way will improve society on some level.

Like I've said, I think it's a good pic and entirely appropriate on a "photography" website... even though I fall into the more "conservative" group. Obviously, not everyone agreed. And as much as I would like to see "freedom of expression" upheld on a photography website, it shouldn't come at the cost of others being able to express their "freedom of expression" in the form of protest. The ultimate decision tho, is made by the people who own the site and consider what is best for its success and the majority of the members. Blame "americans", "conservatives", "prudes", or "Christians" if you want, but they don't have the delete key which takes a pic out of the galleries.

I would imagine the number of emails Slug received was fairly substantial. Compared to the total number of members on pbase, only a small fraction post in the forums it seems... so I doubt bob's thread or emails were directly and solely responsible for the pics removal. But I have to ask, if a majority can make it #1, why can't a majority ask for it to be taken down? Is democracy only fair if it favors one's own personal opinion? As much as I would have liked to see it remain for the sake of art, art isn't dead now.

[gavia_immer]

This thread is never going to die is it? However, we haven't heard anything from Bob in a while. I guess he has gone away pretty well satisified. This has inspired me.

What is so wrong with this position? There do have to be lines; I agree with this completely. I really don't see how it can be argued otherwise. The question is where of course. I don't know where these lines should be but as I was saying I was inspired by the impact of action.

I have been thinking can we do something about sunsets? Way too many sunsets on Pbase. I see this as offensive to my sensibilities. Is it not an offering to the return of darkness onto the world? Something to think about. No wait--I mean something to put a stop to! Also we better not be seeing any Santa pictures this month either. Move the 'n' to the end and what do you have? No that isn't a chance event. No? Explain the red suit?

[erichmangl]

But I have to ask, if a majority can make it #1, why can't a majority ask for it to be taken down?

every day i learn something new here on pbase, did not know by now that there can be two majorities at the same time